R4 Today about the Tavistock report/resignation

[Cwenthryth]

On now

It's the old story: "Of course we are concerned about safeguarding of children. Except for this particular group of children where the normal rules of safeguarding don't apply." At that point some very dodgy characters become interested.

It would be extremely helpful if there's any way this interview could be transcribed.

Superb job by Justin Webb on today - exactly what I pay the licence fee for. I hope they keep shining a light on all at work in this area. The public needs to know

Encouraging and what I want to hear. I and probably many others are desperate for some decent news programmes - off to listen now. I gave up listening a while back as they were just gaslighting with quite another issue, or totally off balance or they were fighting rubbish about Brexit again

Regarding what Polly Carmichael says about social media encouraging Children's awareness and talking about these things I think this post a few days ago is extremely relevant:

Help Ban virtual child pornography? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3515649-Help-Ban-virtual-child-pornography

From the post: *Hi, I’m writing to inform the users here about a new initiative from the u.n. to ban sexualized drawings of children for instance “loli/shota” drawings. I can attest to having found it hard to avoid loli, shota and justifications for the consumption of it on social media while looking up relatively innocuous anime shows I was a fan of in my early teens. I avoided it and didn’t really get groomed into communities that make and consume it but I know women that hasn’t been true for. An ex gf of mine ended up in loli communities at like 12 and it hurt her immensely. Not to mention the effect it has on reinforcing pedophiles desires.

The u.n. has opened this measure up to public comment at this link <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/CRC/Pages/DraftGuidelinesOPs.aspx" target="_blank">https://www.ohchr.org/EN/HRBodies/CRC/Pages/DraftGuidelinesOPs.aspx
(The specific paragraphs are 61-64.) Gross gamer men have likely already been weighing in on this for a while and it’s really important, im, that it passes. For the safety of young boys and girl, it is important. It would mean a lot if some people from here used the opportunity to publicly comment, and spread the information about this to other interested women especially mothers.*

Social media certainly plays a large part in ROGD. The absolute state of that 'asktransgender' reddit, watching all the older 'transitiones' prey on kids constantly and affirm immediately then tell them how to buy hormones and coaching them on what to say to their GP , its upsetting to see. Grooming in plain sight, and a situation where calling out this grooming earns you abuse and banning!

Ontop of this, the comment sections on trans youtubers videos are upsetting too.

While I thought dr Carmichael did come over as a bit slippery I did have sympathy with her point that clinicians need to be able to manage cases on an evidenced based basis without pressure from lobby groups. The worry I have is that the way things are operating now, is any clinician who doesn’t swallow the genderist narrative whole going to be allowed to/ want to practice in the field?

The comment that worried me most was te one PC made abotu ont eh job training. She said there is no training for this, so effectively they are practicing and expereimenting on children.

This is very much what happened with intersex treatments. Surgeons and parents believed was better to "normalise" children rather than have families live with the shame of ambiguity, but they really had little research about the long term impact of the "normalisation" treatment. Trans medical approaches demanded by Mermaids etc. are similar. Normalise a gay or non confiming child to fit in with the sex stereoptypes they and their family and the doctors think will work for them.

While I thought dr Carmichael did come over as a bit slippery I did have sympathy with her point that clinicians need to be able to manage cases on an evidenced based basis without pressure from lobby groups.

The issues that GIDS has had with lobby groups especially Mermaids is well documented and has been referred to for some time.

For whatever reason, GIDS seems to have tried to accomodate differences.

James Kirkup
(extract)
There is regular dialogue between Mermaids and the GIDS, but the two sides do not always agree. An example is on the time the GIDS team take to give referred children the hormone-blocking drugs that stop their bodies developing the physical characteristics associated with their birth sex.

In evidence to another Commons inquiry in 2015, Mermaids argued that GIDS should make such drugs available much more quickly. The GIDS team has generally resisted that call, more than once saying that “any decision around hormone treatment needs time and considered thought.”

And in evidence to that earlier committee, Dr Bernadette Wren of the GIDS said this:

“I know that Susie and Mermaids would like a fast track so that young people who are already well into puberty and feel that they know that they want to move forward into physical intervention would bypass our assessment process and move straight into physical intervention. We feel that is not an ethical way to practise.”

Here’s another summary. A transgender charity that says it is engaged in lobbying lobbied politicians and doctors to change the way children are treated by doctors. The doctors declined to make that change because it would be not be ethical to do so." (continues)

For more than 10 years GIRES and Mermaids have made explicit their aims to enable access to both puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones for 'transgender children' supported by influential adult transpeople and their organisations such as Press For Change

see current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3463920-Lets-go-back-to-2007?pg=4

Reposting the link to todays R4 segment hosted on FPFW’s website

fairplayforwomen.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Tavistock-260219.m4a

This interview and Evan’s resignation as governor over the report is surely a gamechanger?

uk.linkedin.com/in/marcus-evans-928aa5b8

Can anyone find a cached version of the Tavistock and Portman governors page?

Trans medical approaches demanded by Mermaids etc. are similar. Normalise a gay or non confiming child to fit in with the sex stereoptypes they and their family and the doctors think will work for them.

This is why I find the concept of "passing" sinister. It skews the goal of treatment to be a cosmetic outcome in which a successful outcome is producing a modified version of a person who cannot be identified as their birth sex. The sheer inadequacy of that, set against what we're told is sustained and severe mental anguish, is breathtaking.

"While I thought dr Carmichael did come over as a bit slippery I did have sympathy with her point that clinicians need to be able to manage cases on an evidenced based basis without pressure from lobby groups".

But governments are funding the lobby groups. The Lottery is funding lobby groups. We are paying for clinicians to be harassed into experimenting on children.

Cut the funding. Let clinicians do their jobs without being harassed by state-sponsored lobby groups. Prosecute those who harass and threaten clinicians.

There is nobody overseeing this who is even trying to join the dots. It is like the entire government has disappeared. Apart from the parts who are doling out money to lobby groups - that part is very effective.

In evidence to another Commons inquiry in 2015, Mermaids argued that GIDS should make such drugs available much more quickly

I'm pretty sure that's not what they (Mermaids) told the National Lottery...

The comment that worried me most was te one PC made abotu ont eh job training. She said there is no training for this, so effectively they are practicing and expereimenting on children.

Yes this happens often in specialist services, for example sen schools. You need experienced mentors working along side you and in-house training.

My query is, I'd really like to see the safeguarding guidelines that they follow.

Any safeguarding guidelines. On any of this. For any setting.

see current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3463920-Lets-go-back-to-2007?pg=4

That thread is an eye-opener.

The ideological framework which Tavistock GIDS was founded on is the same basis as the narrative espoused by TRA lobby groups, charities and individuals.

Some medical experts are rightly questioning this:

BMJ Published 29 October 2018
'Redesigning gender identity services: an opportunity to generate evidence'
authors: Richard Byng, general practitioner and professor in primary care research, Susan Bewley, emeritus professor of obstetrics and women’s health, Damian Clifford, consultant liaison psychiatrist, Margaret McCartney, general practitioner and freelance writer
(extracts)
"A recent feature in The BMJ implied that new services are all that’s needed to improve transgender healthcare. Providing timely, sensitive services for all, including those who decide to not pursue treatment or detransition, is important. But the article did not question the steep rise in referrals of mainly young women or the potential harms of medical overdiagnosis and overtreatment" (continues)

"Regulated medical practitioners should follow a framework of evidence, not simply respond to client expectations. Creating that evidence to inform quality standards is an ethical imperative. We need research to explore the interplays between gender identity, mental health and neurodevelopmental problems, sexual orientation, autogynephilia, and unpalatable gender roles" (continues)

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3410257-BMJ-article-We-need-research-to-explore-the-interplays-between-gender-identity-mental-health-and-neurodevelopmental-problems-sexual-orientation-autogynephilia-and-unpalatable-gender-roles

clinicians need to be able to manage cases on an evidenced based basis without pressure from lobby groups".

Political lobby groups. Very political lobby groups.

*But governments are funding the lobby groups. The Lottery is funding lobby groups. We are paying for clinicians to be harassed into experimenting on children."

By political groups. Funded to chase one particular political view as if it is the only one, and not only as if it is superior to any other view but with punishment for even debating it. Or debating where it clashes with the laws of the UK. Or debating which other population groups and issues such as safeguarding are harmed by it. Intimidation and paid political lobbying funded by the tax payers .

This is so wrong it's gobsmacking. Happening in plain sight. And pretty much every MP has been told about it.

We will be seeing a lot of back-pedalling soon...well done those already questioning the lobby groups and standing up to intimidation. People will be falling over themselves to disassociate from them, and the harmful and abusive ideas they have promoted.

There are reserves of knowledge and experience that can be drawn on in this field, especially in relation to asd which is a huge factor in the surge in referrals. I’d very much like to know which experts in that field the Tavistock are working with.

Hopefully not the National Autistic Society, who despite complaints from members, still signpost to Mermaids.

The failings of the NAS are a whole other thread I suppose. It would be interesting to investigate what a parent of a kid with asd would bectold if they actually did call mermaids.one for any investigative journos who happen to be reading

2015 Channel 4 News

'Inside the online gender clinic of a pioneering & controversial doctor'
A doctor who prescribed cross-sex hormones to a twelve-year-old child says she's in no doubt it was the right thing to do.

Former GP Helen Webberley, who now runs a private online gender clinic, says she's already advised more than 2000 adult patients in the space of just 18 months - claiming many were frustrated by delays with NHS services.

But Dr Webberley says the reception she's received from some parts of the profession hasn't been entirely welcoming.'

Dr Webberely qualifies professionals who are 'not entirely welcoming' as being akin to 'the transgender mafia'

I agree Justin did a thorough interview and asked proper questions.

I also like his tweet just now.

hmm - Caledonian Sleeper conundrum. That's a whole other thread too.

I wonder if ARC in Cambridge are looking into this issue as it affects autistic young people. I hope so. The overlap between HFA and GID is so significant and I find it hard to believe autistic teenagers are being properly served by current services.