R4 Today about the Tavistock report/resignation

[Cwenthryth]

On now

It's nowhere on the BBC news website, as far as I can see.

Panorama on BBC one at 8:30 tonight, is the shit about to collide with the fan? I don’t know, because the BBC, but the timing does all seem rather coincidental.

Wow.

She really did her best to avoid answering the questions didn't she. Yet whilst desperately trying to give herself time to answer by elongating the phrases she was using she accidently answered the question anyway but without realising.

She was basically out smarted into admitting social media had an impact and that there was alot of pressure from people.

Bit of an own goal really.

I'm.surprised this was allowed to air but glad it was .

Very indicative of the whole thing. No.answers to reasonable questions and the victim card at play the entire time.

Ooh. Panorama. I will inflict it on the family.
University challenge can wait for iPlayer later.

Good questioning by the interviewer and naming the problems... What a change! Polly said there was no training in the field. Does anyone remember if the Tavistock clinic was in Stonwalls list, or indeed if Sonewall and Mermaids are on the Tavistocks contacts to go to list?

Now that it seems the BBC is waking up, a reminder of what someone mentioned on another thread, namely that Paddy O'Connell on yesterday's Broadcasting House said they were willing to return to the issue if people thought it was important enough. So a good idea to email in and explain why they need to be covering it: www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/features/broadcasting-house/contact/

I wonder whether senior, and well respected, medics, like Susan Bewley, speaking out has had any impact.

Yes Susie Green can lobby all she wants, and the Lottery can provide her with bags of money to do so. However almost all medics would have serious qualms about medicating healthy children without a clear evidence base. And many many medics have a healthy scepticism about American approaches, especially where they sense lobbying from drug companies.

This, and sport is where the battles will be won. More fool Stonewall for the #nodebate.

Oh this is interesting. The wall of silence seems to be getting broken down finally.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0002tw1

Trans Kids: Why Medicine Matters
Panorama

More young people than ever are exploring their gender identity. Last year, two and a half thousand under-eighteens were referred to NHS England's gender identity clinics for support. Some are hoping to get access to potentially irreversible treatments as soon as they can. Doctors are divided about the best way to help.

Dr Faye Kirkland investigates how much we understand about the care being offered to transgender children.

I wonder whether senior, and well respected, medics, like Susan Bewley, speaking out has had any impact.

There's been a a number of points of serious professional challenge which seem to be coming together and perhaps reaching critical mass.

I'm sure a lot of medical ethical discussion has been going on including at senior levels.

Dr Faye Kirkland also investigated for the Panorama program ;ast year about the dangers of online clinics which referred to Dr Christian.
(I think the thread discussing it was zapped)

She is aware of Dr Webberley and the conviction against her and GenderGP.

a lot of medical ethical discussion

And budgetary ones....luckily this time the "follow the money" argument will be on our side.

(And not for the first time. UK treatment for the elderly, though far from perfect, tries to promote independence and minimise medication and restraint, and as a result has formed the blue print for forward thinking US care providers. Or childbirth, which again in the US is very medicalised and expensive. There was a very funny clip of a US news programme discussing Kate's latest baby, and the fact she left hospital a day later, with the US medical expert confirming that this was actually a good thing.)

Here it is the section as a clip on FPFW

fairplayforwomen.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Tavistock-260219.m4a

Katvon yes, that sounds familiar for the kid I know.

And given the increasingly hostile environment for girls, especially the gender-non-conforming ones, it's hardly surprising that many of those identifying as trans demonstrate such a strong desire to get away from womanhood and all that comes with it without demonstrating the same strong desire to actually become men.

It's of course a perfectly normal and common response to growing up female in a male-dominated world, it's just that it is happening in a world where we've got the "born in the wrong body" narrative complete with medical options being buoyed by a men's rights movement that is dominated by those who couldn't care less about girls.

I am hopeful however that the current trend towards non-binary will at least protect some of these kids from a medical transition. Unlike with children who identify as trans, non-binary seems not to come with the same strong expectation of a medical transition.

Dr Webberley

She's being interviewed by Radio 5 at 11.30 today

Is it a call in show?
Is it about struck off doctors?
Is it about ethics?
What was her sentence anyway?

I was booting DC out the door at ten to eight but will listen now thanks

What was her sentence anyway?
OP QuietContraryMary wrote Mon 03-Dec-18
"Criminal record, struck off, £12k fine, £2k fine for her company, £11.3k costs.
www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-46400184

Not sure it will stop her criminal activity seems to be a relatively mild deterrent . Future convictions could hopefully lead to prison ?"

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3441380-Criminal-gender-GP-Helen-Webberley-fined-12k

This is separate to the GMC investigations into both Dr Helen Webberley and her husband.
Dr Helen Webberley is still suspended by GMC

I hope they mention this. Can they still call her a doctor though?

She's only suspended with limitations on her practice.

twitter.com/GenderGP/status/1098977537525460995

(from thread above)

Superb job by Justin Webb on today - exactly what I pay the licence fee for. I hope they keep shining a light on all at work in this area. The public needs to know

I find it quite frightening actually that a place like the Tavistock, that treats children, feel under pressure from ANY activists. They should surely be ignoring any outside pressure and treating the kids the best way they know how? And I am positive they used to use a 'wait and watch' approach, rather than instant affirmation, so we can see which lobby group has got their way with these people who are supposed to apply evidence based science

I guess they saw what happened to Kenneth Zucker and think a compromised clinic is better than no clinic at all, or a clinic being run by the likes of Mermaids?

They should surely be ignoring any outside pressure and treating the kids the best way they know how? And I am positive they used to use a 'wait and watch' approach, rather than instant affirmation, so we can see which lobby group has got their way with these people who are supposed to apply evidence based science

Polly Carmichael acknowledged the lack of evidence based science in her lecture last year (referred to in article below)
soundcloud.com/user-664361280/dr-polly-carmichael-developments-and-dilemmas

May 2018 James Kirkup Spectator:
'Why are some MPs trying to shut down the transgender debate?'
(extract)
"This is an issue addressed by Dr Polly Carmichael, who runs the GIDS, in a recent talk to the Association for Child and Adolescent Mental Health. In her thoughtful hour-long lecture, she said this:

“The rapid rise in the number of assigned females…. exemplifies the importance of keeping discourse open and allowing different voices to be heard.

“You might say the increase in the numbers of assigned females coming forward is [because] that it’s easier for females to talk about their gender-diverse feelings so what we are seeing is an increase in awareness getting towards a better representation of the true prevalence of this among females.

“A converse explanation, a question: are there issues for young women around how they perceive their gender? There has been a worry by some that people who would previously have had an outcome around sexuality are now having an outcome around gender.”

(In other words, these are girls who do not readily identify with the predominant idea of femininity and are sexually attracted to biological females, and who would, a decade or two ago, have grown up to consider themselves lesbians.) Dr Carmichael’s conclusion:

“The truth is we don’t know, but we need discussion in order to be thinking about what this could mean.”

Just in case that’s not clear, let me sum it up: the country’s leading centre for the care of gender-variant children says its caseload has risen more than twentyfold (35 times for girls) in less than a decade. The head of that centre doesn’t know why that’s happened and says the question needs further discussion" (continues)
blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/why-are-some-mps-trying-to-shut-down-the-transgender-debate/