Compulsory trans lessons in primary schools: what will this involve?

[Lumene]

Does anyone know who will be teaching or writing the trans part of this curriculum and what it will cover?

Given the cod science and lack of/outright hostility to safeguarding concerns of many of the lobby groups who have been teaching in schools I am really concerned about this.

What does the government think primary school children need to know about trans issues and for what purpose? Will they consult with organisations such as Transgender Trend, WPUK, FPFW?

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/gay-and-trans-lessons-for-primary-schools-7nd8tgqcw

@silentcrow can you give me some people to follow? I'm mainly on Twitter as a parent but I do go to church so would be happy to chip in!

A transgender 4 year old is like a vegan cat.

No four year old should know or care about gender identity, they should just be children doing whatever it is they want to do. Childcare settings and primary schools should be cracking down on any "boys are.../girls are..." nonsense and should be reinforcing that all children can do/play with/wear/etc whatever, no big deal.

My kids see it as a variety of belief: "x's mum thinks women must wear headscarves, the yoga teaches thinks we get lots of lives, y thinks they are a boy but they are really a girl." None are taught as truth, but you shouldn't be mean about any of these things, that's the main message.
I love that.

IDoN0tCare
If you want to know why MNHQ deleted your post, report the deleted post and ask them. I've had to do this a couple of times when I couldn't remember what was in the deleted post, and I wanted to know what rule I had broken. With my posts it seems they were deleted because they could be read in a way that I didn't intend.

Thank you, OldCrone.

NothingOnTellyAgain
does gender in the above quote mean gender as in stereotypes or gender as in internal gender id

This is what the report I quoted says about gender:

‘Gender’ is used in this report to refer to how sexed bodies are lived (e.g. as identity, as expression, through social interaction), represented (e.g. in language, media, popular culture) and regulated (e.g. by socio-cultural norms, such as the stereotypes of ‘masculinity’ and ‘femininity’, and in law). While the concept gender can include the different ways societies assign chromosomes or body parts to sex categories, it is not synonymous with sex, and does not only refer to gender identity or gender expression. It is a concept that allows for analyses of gender as an organising principle of society (e.g. how gender shapes and is shaped by economic, environmental, political, cultural, legal, historical, religious and spiritual factors). As a concept, it also enables an exploration of how different societies address the intersection of biological, socio-cultural and psychological processes.

Loads of waffle, but they do try to make a distinction between gender, sex and gender identity.

‘Sex’ is used in this report to refer to the biological processes and attributes that societies use to assign sex categories (e.g. male, female, intersex). These biological attributes include chromosomes, hormones and internal and external physical sexual and reproductive anatomy.

So they're not too hot on biology, since they seem to think intersex is a third sex, separate from male and female.

‘Gender identity’ is used in this report to refer to a person’s inner sense of self. Gender identity does not necessarily relate to the sex a person is assigned at birth. Feelings about gender identity start early, around the age of 2-3.

'Inner sense of self' - really? And that last sentence - words fail me.

Are there any gc teachers out there? Surely not all teachers can be on board with this? It would defy belief.
But I never seem to read a post where a teacher chimes in to say this is something they are not on board with.
Or am I missing something? Surely there are a gazillion teachers who are also mothers who see the safeguarding issues?

Not a teacher myself but I have 3 teachers in the family. They all have trans kids in their schools and think the whole trans thing ridiculous but none would stand up for fear of losing their jobs so go along with school policy.

My child's secondary school shares this with students. Whatever I say as a parent is met with the juggernaut. I feel completely powerless. It makes me weep to think of my child being taught this regressive ideology and calling me 'C*sgender'

www.stonewall.org.uk/truth-about-trans

I can't read it anymore. The part about opening up women's refuges to all.
If any of you have the stomach, read it all.

And weep.

drspouse @michael_merrick was rt-ed into my timeline and the discussion was interesting to read. It stood out because it was on my ordinary account (mostly book-related and excessively woke or silent on the subject). They're not talking trans specifically, more about the clash of values and who has the right to teach values to children.

Are there any gc teachers out there? Surely not all teachers can be on board with this? It would defy belief.

There was a long thread last summer with a lot of contributions from teachers:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3301871-What-do-educators-make-of-what-is-happening-in-our-schools

see also May 2018, Guardian article and comments,
'Schools pulled into row over helping transgender children
As more teens come out as trans, experts clash over how schools should help'

www.theguardian.com/education/2018/may/15/transgender-row-teachers-afraid-challenge-breast-binding

I was a teacher, still in education and i know many teachers. Yes, they are concerned. Yes, they are scared to say so.

We were having a really interesting gc chat, a group of 6 of us ranging from in our 20s to 60s.
Most interesting was a retired teacher who was telling me about a friend of the family who strongly identified as a boy when they were a teen. I was expecting the story to go, "and they grew up to be a happy transman", just from the way she was telling it.
But this story happened in the 90s, so the person involved is now happily married with kids. Obviously. Crazy.

Everyone in that group saw the dangers, and worried about the best ways to support all children. It's really worrying, especially when you've worked with autistic kids.

But I never seem to read a post where a teacher chimes in to say this is something they are not on board with.

I regularly post on these threads. I’m a family support worker and safeguarding lead in a primary school. I’m line-managed by the head teacher and work closely with her on PSHE and associated matters.

Recently I gave out copies of the Transgendertrend school pack to colleagues in other schools at a network meeting. I met a GC Senco at that meeting. She couldn’t believe I’d brought the TGT pack with me. She thought it would be the Mermaids one and she was relieved to find it wasn’t. She also said she felt she had to keep her head below the parapet with her GC views because of the pressure on schools from organisations like Stonewall and Mermaids.

I've been following fwr for a couple of years now, I missed that thread.
I'm so relieved - this stuff is so worrying. I just think thank goodness my two are through school.
But I have a small granddaughter who will be starting next year and I need to think about how to protect her from this shit. My son (her dad) and her mum are quite young and are unaware of the threat. Because it all seems so unbelievable.

Compulsory teaching of sex stereotypes and how its wrong for boys to like 'feminine' things and vice versa. I hate how they link homosexuality and trans, as if they are anything similar. The lessons..well I can only imagine but basically it will confuse the fuck out of kids if they go via stonewall/mermaids guidance. 'Its ok to be homosexual, however if you will not consider a relationship with someone of the opposite sex then you are an awful bigot'. 'Sex stereotypes are just stereotypes, but which stereotypes you follow dictate your sex, rather than your body'. and so on

Did anyone look at the response and updated regulations released today? The main point is that parents retain the right to withdraw thier child up to the age of 14 or 15 at which point it's the childs decision. Also an acknowledgement that there are strong feelings about the teaching of LGBT so some flexibility given I think ( I haven't read it properly but think that's the gist of it)

Government response to consultation can be downloaded here:

www.gov.uk/government/consultations/relationships-and-sex-education-and-health-education

When I said that, IME, the parents are much more extreme than the teaching staff, I meant that it is the parents of the trans children sending emails around their classes, trying to drum up support for their child to use a particular toilet, adding videos to the school FB about how hard it is to be different (the one with Juno Dawson fronting it). The school just deal with these things tactfully, but fairly dismissively.

It is from the parents to their child to my child, that messages come back about boy brains, not the school. It is from the parents that we are asked to correct our children if they say something offensive like "boys can stand up to pee." The email lists are not officially linked to the school, so it isn't the school's business. The staff don't correct the children if they use the wrong name, but they do correct the other parents, which is fine - I wouldn't want to make a point by making a child uncomfortable.

I actually think it is good the school have thought in advance how to deal with it, it is preferable to just reacting to the parents each time they have a new complaint/demand. I do think they have used the framework for religious differences, as it is a very diverse catchment, and it seems to work okay. If we have problems with the content, then that should be the area to work with the school, but pretending it isn't going to be an issue or keeping kids off school, is counterproductive.

TBH the big fuss when kids came back with different names/genders after the summer holidays has died down - the kids don't care any more. Of the two families I know well, I think one will just change back now they are getting on with life and aren't caught up in the excitement of it all, the other will ramp it up - that's just the way they are. The first is more "I couldn't possibly say no to my child," and the child has moved on to other things, the second is more "my child is so much more special and different," so they'll keep going.

Primary kids move on really fast and I'm hoping that by the time mine reach secondary it is seen as "so 2018." In some ways I'd prefer this, to them discovering it in their teens as something really misunderstood and alluring (I wasn't saying this when it first happened though, I was horrified then).

Just dropped I go my inbox via They Work For You, last night's Lords discussion on this topic:

www.theyworkforyou.com/lords/?id=2019-02-25a.68.3

Haven't time to go into it deeply now but two things jumped out - what is, and who us behind, the Sex Education Forum cited; and that Baroness Barker's comment is rather interesting. Anyone know her views?

Baroness Barker has a long history of supporting and working closely with trans activist groups eg GIRES

Chaired event last summer
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3268237-Westminster-Social-Policy-forum-today-Next-steps-for-transgender-Equality-WSPFEvents

"LGBT Leaders: Lawmakers reject radical feminist transphobia"
by Sofia Lotto Persio 12th October 2018
(extract)

"LGBT+ people should be supporting the trans community in the reform of the Gender Recognition Act (GRA), a panel of LGBT+ politicians said on Friday (October 12).

With only a week to go before the public consultation on the GRA reform closes, support for transgender rights dominated a discussion on the future of LGBT+ rights in the UK at opening evening of the LGBT Leaders conference, presented by PinkNews and hosted by Freshfields.

“Within the [LGBT] community, the four initials right now, there is no excuse to do anything other than supporting one another,” said Baroness Liz Barker, a Liberal Democrat peer who publicly came out during the passage of the Marriage Act in 2013.

Baroness Barker commended Prime Minister Theresa May for choosing to champion transgender equality, but criticised how long it took for the government to launch the consultation, in July, after first announcing plans to reform the GRA in October.

That delay, according to Baroness Barker, allowed “self-identified radical feminists” to organise and “put together a whole series of assumptions and generalisations.” She compared the strategies adopted by these groups to those historically adopted by people “to foster hatred agains minorities” and called for people to “reclaim feminism.”

Stephen Doughty, Labour and Co-operative Parliamentary MP for Cardiff South and Penarth, also tapped on the viciousness of the debate surrounding the consultation and compared some of the headlines published with relations to trans issues to those that a few decades ago would be directed at LGB people.

“For the vast majority of trans people who want to get on with their lives this is incredibly damaging,” Doughty said.

Baroness Barker advised people to take part in the consultation, to talk respectfully to trans people—keeping in mind how personal this conversation may be for them—and to talk to your MP." (continues)

www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/10/12/lgbt-leaders-lawmakers-reject-radical-feminist-transphobia/

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3449385-Steven-Doughty-MP-attacks-Janice-Turner-as-shrill-hmm

One of the concerns with schools is the issue of consent. It quite rightly features highly in the SRE guidelines. So how does this work when trans activists are all about removing a child's rights to consent to:
undress in front of the opposite sex (including those traumatised from sexual assaults)?
share dorms / sleeping accommodation with the opposite sex?
removing a child's right to access sex segregated toilets, showers, changing rooms?
play single sex contact sports ?
and so on

Difficult questions that parents should be asking in their schools.

Thanks, R0 - her comment could be read either way without that info!

One of the concerns with schools is the issue of consent. It quite rightly features highly in the SRE guidelines.

How can a child under the age of consent be able to consent? I get the idea of teaching boundaries, but I don’t understand how the idea of consent applies at primary age in terms of sexual education. It seems to assume a child can consent.

Schoolchildren as young as four will not be taught about gay relationships. Also covering trans.

This popped up on my Facebook today. Haven't seen it verified elsewhere yet, but perhaps a sign of common sense breaking out? Direct quotes from Damien Hinds "He was asked if this included teaching children as young as four or five about being gay and transgender relationships, to which he replied not at that age."