Martina speaks out!

[PimmsnLemonade]

I'm so pleased to see this. I've been a big fan of Martina since I was a kid and this just makes her go up even higher in my estimation:

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/martina-navratilova-blasts-cheating-transgender-women-in-sport-8fmjbnh99

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-rules-on-trans-athletes-reward-cheats-and-punish-the-innocent-klsrq6h3

Saying its just a loud minority makes them feel better, they now deep down the general public are against it surely..I mean, TRAs claimed for ages that only a few hundred terfs, with multiple accounts on various social media platforms were against self-ID. A proper poll got done, and it turned out something like 80% of people in general were against it? Which sounds about right.

I would say with the men in womens sports thing, it will probably be close to 95% of the public against it too...

My only sibling is male.

It's only a small, very loud minority who oppose us.
And how many are on your block list again?

"Yes, the overwhelming number of cis women SUPPORT the inclusion of their trans siblings. It's only a small, very loud minority who oppose us."

Rachel - if you'd care to read the thousands and thousands of comments (now closed) under the BBC story on FB - from men and women - you'd know that wasn't true.

Why aren't the feminist groups speaking out about this?

I've seen variations of this comment a LOT recently sometimes even accompanied by a link derived from somewhere like FPFW or as a comment on an article that specifically talks about opposition by women's groups.

It's infuriating how dense some people are.

I have no idea how that ended up here rather than the Brexit thread

Paula R, Kelly F and Sharron D have spoken up for Martina.

Any male sportspeople?

McKinnon knows it isn't true. If they believed it they wouldn't be afraid to debate openly with that 'tiny minority' on air. McKinnon and all TRAs never want the general public to hear any message but theirs for good reason and are heavily invested in making people fear to speak out, because that's the only way to achieve what they want. They are still livid any of this escaped into the public domain before it was safely achieved in law.

Very few people really have seen or thought about the ramifications of issues like self I'd. I talk about this quite a lot amongst my friends, hardly any of them know this stuff. Every now and then you see a chink of it, for me it was Guides, you follow the thinking and then have a wft moment.
I don't know a single person who actually believes transwoman are women. I also don't know a single person I would consider transphobic. However at least one friend found out recently that amongst people she knows well, simply stating the definition of 'woman' got her called transphobic. She was very shocked as she's a nice person and just like Martina has gone away and found out more. She's even more shocked and now also pretty annoyed at what she now sees as the attempted erasure of women.

Me neither beamur

They kinda think it’s a few cross dressers. And feel sorry for them

But once you tell them what it means they are like wtaf

And I have never heard anyone get called transphobe in real life

I think part of the issue with 'why aren't feminist organisations speaking about this?' is that the main ones which a go-to for the media - Eg the fawcett society and wep - have deliberately not been talking about this. Its obviously been impossible to get the issue raised in mainstream feminism. The new orgs are which are talking about it have sprung up because of this issue (or this was the catalysts) so don't have the name recognition. Also big name feminist personalities eg caitlin Morgan have been studiously ignoring it. So to most people not paying attention it looks like feminists aren't addressing this.
Thank goddess for the new orgs and the excellent campaigning which is making a space for this conversation.

the fawcett society and wep - have deliberately not been talking about this

As I understand it, they include Kool-aid quaffers, so that's probably a mercy.

And any personality who wants to speak is soon dealt with. Emma Freud just agreed with glinner on twitter (a general post including the sport issue) but has deleted it. Recant recant....

Errol yes I'd forgotten that if they spoke out it it might not benefit women.

When I saw the Freud thread, I thought she was getting more thanks than blame.

I don't know a single person who actually believes transwoman are women.

Offhand, I know three: one is a Grade-A idiot who cannot see a bandwagon without jumping on to it; the second is a furry and the third is boundlessly stupid, ie a Grade-A idiot.

Formatting fail. I was quoting Beamur in my first line.

Wait. I know four people: one is a psychologist who claims that he and his colleagues can't tell the difference between male and female mice.

one is a psychologist who claims that he and his colleagues can't tell the difference between male and female mice.

I remember you saying that. As someone who has worked with mice extensively, you certainly can tell.

Errolthedragon. Yes I think your right I was a bit surprised. but the blame was all v handwringey and disappointed, and saying they wouldn't be supporting comic relief.

Amanda Abbington seems to get it too although like Freud has deleted and apologised. I didn't see her original tweet but from what I can gather it was a men not being able to get pregnant shocker. She's getting lots of support and agreement with her original tweet though.

motherforking

Amanda Abbingdon quote tweeted something saying men could have babies with a sarky comment such as “lol”. Don’t think it was actually lol but something along those lines.

We need to make it equally as unacceptable to speak out against women.

Glinner screenshotted (is that a word? Sorry if not) the tweets:
twitter.com/glinner/status/1098289033757773825?s=21

They include a couple of tweets about the guy (Ellis Cashmore) who talked over Sharron Davies from someone who was taught by him. This person (Christopher Grey) rather marvellously asks if someone spiked Cashmore’s kool aid with LSD.

for that but that yet again women are being abused for simply stating an opinion (let alone a fact).