Womb transplants for trans women are a human right, says surgeon

[QuietContraryMary]

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/transgender-women-should-entitled-womb-13972102

"Because once the medical community accept this as a treatment for cis-women with uterine infertility, such as congenital absence of a womb, then it would be illegal to deny a trans-female who has completed her transition.

"The most important step is the harvesting from the donor as great care is required to avoid damage to the arteries and veins supplying the uterus.
Trans females have a much narrower pelvis than cis-women of the same height, but there would still be room for them to carry a child.

“Supplemental hormones could be taken to replicate the changes that occur in the body when a woman is pregnant.

@Jazzbunny yes women’s rights are being trampled over day in day out by the TRA movement. Wake UP. please.

And no I don’t agree that a gender fluid society might finally rid us of our bondage to the patriarch? because, ironically, the trans movement is being driven by men who don’t believe in gender fluidity. They believe I tbhe eradication of natal women’s rights. They are doing NOTHING to amend or reshape or reform or eradicate the patriarchy.

Please don’t hijack suicide as a catalyst for guilt. It’s a weak hand to play.

@Divingintothis @Jazzbunny
I know some of the trans-rights discussions (changing rooms, toilets) raises some safe guarding issues and I do understand that to an extent, but why the overall generalised anger towards the trans-community? People take their own lives over things like this

Completely agree, most of the trans threads are disgusting and don't know how some posters get away with what they spout.
This womb transplant though intrigued me as I honestly cannot see that one happening.
The plumbing's wrong for a start, it's not just an organ to grow babies and was questioning how that would even work.
I don't think it will be possible anytime soon until we know more about how babies develop etc.
They'd be pretty hard to grow from scratch without female biological bits.

Red, respectfully, there seems to be a lot of anger towards the trans-community on these boards. I am not trans, nor do I have trans family or friends so this isn’t something I would take personally, I’m just genuinely surprised by the extent of it.

There’s no way any of us can claim we know for sure whether gender identify is real or not, we just can’t. Lots of people here believe it is not (which is fine, completely their own belief), but they state that as fact on these boards, rather than opinion. It wouldn’t be acceptable to come on here and say ‘there’s no such thing as gay’, so it shouldn’t be acceptable to state there’s no such thing as trans. I haven’t seen it said on this particular post, incidentally.

The thing that always gets me when I read these posts is the the thought of ‘but goodness, if it is a real thing (which I do believe) and people are finally given the chance to live in a way that makes them happy, why are other people so angry about that?’

I completely understand some of the safety issues that concern people, I really do. And I don’t have an answer. But there is anger towards the trans community on the feminism board and I do find it shocking.

They are doing NOTHING to amend or reshape or reform or eradicate the patriarchy.

They ARE the patriarchy.

Bergdorf telling women on the women's march not to talk about their reproductive issues/rights.

Faye, advising the girl guides on safeguarding whilst simultaneously advocating for extreme porn and lowering the age of the participants.

Hudson campaigning to get male sex offenders into female prisons, resulting in Jacinta Brooks and Karen White, etc.

Action for Trans Health condoning the battery of a pensioner at speakers corner.

Madigan, being made Labour Party women's officer, and setting up a secret dossier of women to expel women from the party, despite the remit being to attract women to the party.

Stonewall deciding that two men having anal sex is lesbian sex if they say it is.

That the definition of woman is anyone who says they are.

I mean I could go on all night Jazzbunny.

And yes, ultimately, as @GlitterStick says, this is a long long LONG way off medically so I highly doubt it’s a concern. I don’t think anyone is suggesting they put a womb in someone born a man today and see if they can grow a baby.

Divingintothis

No one is disputing that gender dysphoria isn't real. But there is no such thing as being born in the wrong body. It's science fiction claptrap.

Unless you're prepared to do a bit more research, the only, as a quick guide I would suggest to you is that you have a look at some detransitioning stories.

Look at things backwards, as it were.

Stonewall deciding that two men having anal sex is lesbian sex if they say it is.

Is this “which of the following statements is untrue”? It has to be this one, surely?

I'm quite sure that transgender people believe they have a gender identity. The issue is where their beliefs affect other people, especially if you're looking at changing laws and society to reflect that belief system. That's not something I can agree with.

FamilyOfAliens

Not at all. Hence lady stick, lady penis, male lesbians etc.

If transwomen are women, no arguments, it's a logical conclusion. And Stonewall refuse to go on record as saying otherwise.

In fact, in a nice bit of symmetry, Lily Madigan the erstwhile Labour Party women's officer , born male, also says they are lesbian. They talk about coming out to their dad.

__**Stonewall deciding that two men having anal sex is lesbian sex if they say it is.

The above is the kind of thing that I’m curious about in terms of why people are so worried about it? Why does it impact anyone else what Stonewall say about this?

I’m honestly not trying to be confrontational, I just don’t understand the anger towards something that doesn’t impact you directly (some of the issues discussed here do, so I’m not disputing that).

Grotesque piss-take. Grotesque misogyny.

Absolutely grotesque. Perversion. To believe that installing a womb and an embryo into a male abdomen, could ever, ever produce a living baby.

Words fail me.

I do feel very sad for the the true tw who ar re too scared to speak out (The same as women have been) that have come on these boards and spoken, but are fearful of the men, so are hiding

Here we go with "people transitioned backwards so of course that means it can't be a thing, as look, it didn't work out for them."
I honestly cannot see how some are just so close minded and shut off to everyone else.
Not my experience, so nope, it's not a thing! Not having it. Nope. Claptrap. Cos I say so.
And again, this thread that would have been actually quite interesting is going the exact same way as every other identikit transthread on here.

This is a "Why can we not just be nice?" appeal, yes?

On the off chance that the recent new names might actually be new, i will point out that most women posting here were very willing advocates for trans people and in so far as trans people being free to live their lives peacefully and without oppression, we still are.

The only reason this has become an issue to the feminists and other women posting here is because the things being demanded by the most vocal in the Genderist movement impact hugely on women's rights and protections, and drive a great big truck through safeguarding protocols.

HTH.

The above is the kind of thing that I’m curious about in terms of why people are so worried about it? Why does it impact anyone else what Stonewall say about this?

It's kind of important if you're a lesbian. The old-fashioned kind with a vagina. As there are no more lesbian places, that are not now accessed by male lesbians.

If you go onto any online dating site for lesbians you will find many male lesbians.

Lesbians, particularly young ones, are being pressurised to have sex with lesbians with a penis.

During last Pride a group of lesbians had a banner saying a lesbian is a female homosexual. And they were vilified. Across the board.

Called hateful, transphobic, violent, etc.

And you have to remember how important Stonewall is. They advise the government, the NSPCC, the police, councils, schools Universities, etc.

It's worth looking at the Stonewall transadvisory board. Among others You will see Alex Drummond, a bearded transwoman who reckon they bring out a woman's inner lesbian.

Fgs, glitter, that post actually started with the acknowledgment that gender dysphoria is real. No one thinks that transgender people don't exist.

Why does it impact anyone else what Stonewall say about this?

Because Stonewall are a powerful lobby group that purports to represent lesbians, and homosexuality is a protected, defined characteristic in UK equality law. If you can't see why lesbians might be affected by this kind of deceptive nonsense, stick around. There is lots to learn.

Datun that’s a fair answer, thank you.

There’s no way any of us can claim we know for sure whether gender identify is real or not, we just can’t. Lots of people here believe it is not (which is fine, completely their own belief), but they state that as fact on these boards, rather than opinion. It wouldn’t be acceptable to come on here and say ‘there’s no such thing as gay’, so it shouldn’t be acceptable to state there’s no such thing as trans. I haven’t seen it said on this particular post, incidentally.

Being gay has a clear definition though with observable behaviour. An analogy would be gay people being gay but insisting to everyone we recognise it as heterosexual.

There is also the Stonewall problem in that they have created trans as an umbrella term that covers such a broad spectrum of people practically everyone falls under it.

So on that basis what is 'trans'? Is it the people with gender dysphoria? People who cross dress as a kink and fetish? People who say they are trans without making any outward attempts to look like the opposite sex (there is a few of those)? Non binary people? All of the above?

The list goes on and on, go check out Stonewall's trans umbrella for more detail. I don't think anyone here disputes that gender dysphoria is a long recognised condition and used to underpin the diagnosis in those formerly known as transsexuals. Now though it's a massive free for all.

What does trans mean to you? Because if you provide a narrow definition you will absolutely be leaving out one group or another which of course makes you bigoted because the 'correct' answer is always anyone who says they are.

You're welcome Divingintothis. You sound like you genuinely want to know.

There is a lot to take in. But please just bear in mind that feminists are historically left-wing, and champions of minorities. It's unlikely that they have all turned into raging bigots overnight.

This thread might help explain the situation. Things have moved on slightly, since it started, but it's basically all there.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Floral - got it. I hadn’t considered that.

If you go onto any online dating site for lesbians you will find many male lesbians.

I meant to add that many say 'no trans' in their profile. (Just in case it's still not clear).

There are some weird men who are so pissed off that it's women who gestate and give birth, and that gestation and giving birth is impossible for men. I find it baffling, but it seems to be a thing.

So if you're born female, you can identify as male, and have children, if you're born male and identify as female, you should have the automatic right to bear children, but if you're juts unfortunate enough to be an infertile female, you're at the bottom of the pile. Because women are less important than the feelings of men.