Womb transplants for trans women are a human right, says surgeon

[QuietContraryMary]

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/transgender-women-should-entitled-womb-13972102

"Because once the medical community accept this as a treatment for cis-women with uterine infertility, such as congenital absence of a womb, then it would be illegal to deny a trans-female who has completed her transition.

"The most important step is the harvesting from the donor as great care is required to avoid damage to the arteries and veins supplying the uterus.
Trans females have a much narrower pelvis than cis-women of the same height, but there would still be room for them to carry a child.

“Supplemental hormones could be taken to replicate the changes that occur in the body when a woman is pregnant.

Is it that some men feel that they could really do pregnancy and birth better than women??!!

Datun - just starting to read and the AGP point does give context to what i’ve read here and why people are angry with some aspects of the rights given to people who identify as such. Thank you for sharing.

However, I do think that the sentiments on the thread you shared don’t come through on the indivudual posts that I see on these boards. It does feel very transphobic.

After all if they are already performing successfully this surgery in women who are born without a uterus or womb and are born with XY chromosomes (Swyer syndrome), so it is very likely to work with transwomen too

As far as I am concerned transplanting wombs into another natal woman is Frankenstein's monster surgery. The conditions referred to might well be terribly sad for the individual woman concerned- but ultimately- tough.

No one is entitled to have a baby created for them. We are not in any danger of running short of people.

The amount of time, energy, expense , expertise and knowledge wasted , not forgetting I'm sure the 1000s of tortured animals, on this abomination makes me furious.

@LondonHuffyPuffy I'm so sorry.

I myself have gone through 20 plus years of horrific periods, miscarriages and infertility. My bladder is now literally hanging out of my body. Getting the help I need has never happened.

This news has made me irrationally angry. I just fucking can't.

Hadn’t finished writing and clicked post accidentally.

I meant to say I will continue to read and I’m glad to understand the context.

I would just be concerned that it can appear that these boards are becoming a soap box for those who just don’t believe in gender dysmorphia and I hope that those who have more insightful views on this, do take time to assist with making sure that isn’t the case.

Divingintothis
Please explain why it is transphobic to emphasise that pregnancy and birthing are things that happen physically to women, and do not happen to men.

London I hope its all as bearable as it possibly can be for you and that you get a better outcome than currently predicted

Diving, quite a number of us have been posting for some time in an attempt to keep the issues focused on women's rights, which is what this particular board zeroes in on.

But it's a very popular board, and no one poster is responsible for everything else that gets posted here, particularly when a lot of people come here with no intention of posting in good faith, and sometimes deliberately to goad and derail. It makes it very challenging to have any kind of rational, calm conversation.

Again, many of us know trans people, it has touched our families and friends, and some of us are even trans ourselves (I'm not, to be clear). This is not about denying anyone exists. It is simply about addressing a conflicting rights scenario and making sure women do not lose out, being mostly feminists here.

However, I do think that the sentiments on the thread you shared don’t come through on the indivudual posts that I see on these boards. It does feel very transphobic.

It's a journey Divingintothis. Women have been hit, threatened with bombs, met by masked men with dogs, doxed, no platformed and threatened with rape, just for wanting to meet to talk about proposed law changes.

Law changes that the government are expecting to be publicly consulted on. They are expecting meetings to take place.

All I can say is to keep reading. When convicted rapists like Karen White (pic) are sent to female prisons and assault the inmates, you know there's something wrong.

Or where other countries are ahead of us, men are competing against women in sport.

Once you start to drill down, you uncover such rank misogyny that there is no going back.

It is about the law change. But it's more than that. Misogynists flock to the movement and it becomes pretty obvious, pretty quickly.

And I'd to offer to London and others who have mentioned their distress, I'm trying to focus on a number of things and I don't want to ignore you xx

I would just be concerned that it can appear that these boards are becoming a soap box for those who just don’t believe in gender dysmorphia

Be 100% clear my objection to this surgery applies equally to women and trans women. Children should not be commodities created by ever more elaborate and unnatural science to satisfy the selfish whim of an adult.

Women getting angry about being erased and erosion of their rights is not the same as transphobia

Who says that gender dysphoria doesn't exist? I just don't think that's true to say that's said on here.

I would just be concerned that it can appear that these boards are becoming a soap box for those who just don’t believe in gender dysmorphia and I hope that those who have more insightful views on this, do take time to assist with making sure that isn’t the case.

Diving did you read my previous post on this? No one here disbelieves in gender dysphoria/dysmorphia. It's more that those conditions are no longer necessarily what makes someone trans, if fact a growing number of transactivists believe it is discriminatory to require it or suggest that it is a basis for being trans.

If you stick around long enough you'll soon realise that the goalposts constantly change around what trans is and therefore what transphobia is. Without a doubt you will find yourself unexpectedly on the 'wrong' side at some point no matter how good an ally you consider yourself to be.

Weren't they thinking of moving to assumed consent for organ donation I am sure they could use this in a campaign to show people how their organs would be used.

Or not.

Is self ID law now?

Children should not be commodities created by ever more elaborate and unnatural science to satisfy the selfish whim of an adult.

This. Children have rights. Human rights, children are humans. Why does this seem to be so often forgotten?

What is being proposed here (implanting a womb into a male and trying to artificially and probably unsuccessfully maintain a pregnancy) would probably fail to pass ethics committees if we were talking about monkeys and about research, surely?

Wales have assumed consent don't they?

I seem to be having a tech issue with the boards and can’t post without it crashing but....

I would just be concerned that it can appear that these boards are becoming a soap box for those who just don’t believe in gender dysmorphia and I hope that those who have more insightful views on this, do take time to assist with making sure that isn’t the case.

Everyone knows gender dysphoria exists. We have quite a few transwomen who post, who have it. They generally are those who do not say they are actually women. They know it's a psychological condition and presenting as women alleviates the symptoms. They support women.

In this country there are less than 5000 gender recognition certificates that have been issued. Whereas the trans population is estimated at 500,000.

Because Stonewall have included transvestites, AGPs, part-time cross dressers, non-binary people who say they are neither male nor female, gender fluid people who are male for three days and female for four (see Phillip Bunce of credit Suisse who won a woman in business award), and anyone who says they are (like Soham murderer, Nicola Huntley - Nicola being the name of the mother of one of the victims).

So yeah, the problem isn't really with genuine transsexuals. But, unfortunately, it's come one, come all.

And I'm afraid peoples hearts have hardened. It's really quite infuriating to watch a bunch of men decide exactly what the criteria is for them to get into your space. Is it surgery, longevity, 'prettiness', a piece of paper??

Without asking or even consulting women.

I've seen so very many programmes where this is discussed, 'from both sides'. And you get a man, and a transwoman!

Third spaces are the way forward.

MN not working at all today! Or maybe it’s my phone.

I’m just trying to thank those who gave their balanced view.

I would personally love to see a safe and effective developement of a method for those born male to have babies. I don’t expect it in my lifetime but I think it would be a wonderful thing, if medically safe for parent and child.

Bugger your "tech issue".

Please explain to us how you overturn very fundamental basic biology. Ta.

Kite I don’t understand the tech issue comment?

I don’t know how you do it. I don’t know how any amazing medical advancements work. I’m not medically trained. Surely that doesn’t mean I can’t think it would be a wonderful thing if it did?

I would personally love to see a safe and effective developement of a method for those born male to have babies.

Seriously? Why?

Why not spend the time, money and resources curing illnesses and diseases? Alzheimer's? Cancer? All the congenital conditions?

I'm not sure you've thought this through. Well, I hope that's it.

Dangerous talk Diving fuck about with life, just because. That should never be a thing in anyone's mind. It strikes me in the realms of rats with ears growing on their sides, and making dogs with two heads, just because.