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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Womb transplants for trans women are a human right, says surgeon

766 replies

QuietContraryMary · 08/02/2019 22:14

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/transgender-women-should-entitled-womb-13972102

"Because once the medical community accept this as a treatment for cis-women with uterine infertility, such as congenital absence of a womb, then it would be illegal to deny a trans-female who has completed her transition.

"The most important step is the harvesting from the donor as great care is required to avoid damage to the arteries and veins supplying the uterus.
Trans females have a much narrower pelvis than cis-women of the same height, but there would still be room for them to carry a child.

“Supplemental hormones could be taken to replicate the changes that occur in the body when a woman is pregnant.

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Datun · 18/02/2019 14:27

At times, the thought alone was enough to reduce me to howling incoherence in a way that most things don't. Never queen of the prom? Pfft! Who cares? Never dated Hugh Jackman? A tragedy! For him, of course. But never a mother? It is difficult even to type that and ... fourth wall break ... this is the point where I stop writing in order to stand up, make a cup of tea and – yes – grab a tissue.

Aww. Poor Jane. Reduced to tears over the fact that men can't gestate.

Such sensitivity.

Now was it about extreme pornography? That it is designed to leave the viewer in serious doubt as to whether the injuries to the women's breasts, vagina and anus are authentic or not.

Plus Jane advocates for lowering the age of the participants.

My oestrogen levels regularly nudge those of the average pregnant person:

Pregnant woman, Jane.

The ones whose breasts, anuses and vaginas are to be as realistically injured as possible so that men can become aroused.

Tut.

Bittermints · 18/02/2019 14:40

Note that Jane says the first womb transplant to a non-trans woman has already been made. So now this minuscule group is the reference point by which all women are to be judged. There are transwomen and there are non-transwomen. Hmm

As for Jane's sensitivity and thoughtfulness towards Jane's children, let's not forget that by Jane's own testimony, having finally come to the decision that Jane was going to transition, Jane broke the news to Jane's wife and daughter immediately, even though the daughter had an AS exam the next day.

Smotheroffive · 18/02/2019 14:45

No indeed never queen of the prom, really who cares, pointless even commenting poor poor poor all of us women who were never queen of the prom. We think about that lots and need to write about it, not, ever!
Never dated Hugh Jackman, fgs, what is this drivel. The while of womankind frequently lose themself as a result of that thought, never thought by anyone, only in the sense of being a celeb fan, or weird creepy stalker.

Fourth wall?! Yes, so be a man, in a patriarchal society, and demand rights over baby lives, despite the appalling risk that puts babies at. Cos your emotional well-being (entitlement) trumps a babies life.

No, never!

Bowlofbabelfish · 18/02/2019 14:51

this is the point where I stop writing in order to stand up, make a cup of tea and – yes – grab a tissue.

I hope Jane wipes up after themselves.

Oh... crying..?

Yes, yes of course.

LuggsaysNotaWomen · 18/02/2019 14:57

“Get up and grab a tissue?!”

Like Jane doesn’t have a box of Mansize Kleenex by the side of the computer at all times.

Datun · 18/02/2019 15:05

Oh bowl. And I absolutely would not put it past Jane to put have that in deliberately.

Meanwhile, in the Mumsnet forums, I see the transphobes declaring, already, that they would rather no part of their body ever be available for transplant that a trans woman might benefit from. This is futile.

Um, it's not futile, it's illegal.

Having a womb and giving birth don't make you a woman, I expect one of them to declare around 2030.

No, Jane - cutting a uterus out of a woman, getting another woman's eggs and another man's sperm together inside it, and drugging a male individual to the point of insanity, in order to implant it into his body - doesn't make you a woman.

Dear God. All this ^^ when you can just ejaculate instead.

Ugh.

Ribosomes · 18/02/2019 15:09

Fae is wrong about the most likely donor being the grandmother of the putative child born via a donated uterus. The mostly likely match would be a sibling, due to the genetics of the MHC.

Scientific errors eh? Shock who'd have thought it.

daisyscott · 18/02/2019 15:11

Regarding organ donation, if you've passed and your uterus is no longer in use, why not donate it to someone else who really wants it? Makes no difference to you Smile

Bittermints · 18/02/2019 15:17

There's a big ethical difference between donating a kidney from my dead body and donating my womb. One enables another person to come off dialysis, and will probably extend that person's life for several years. The other might enable that person to bring another life into the world. I'm very sympathetic to people with fertility problems; it must be agonising to want to have a child and not be able to have one. But we have a population crisis on Earth as it is. I don't see any pressing reason to develop womb transplants woman to woman, never mind woman to man, given how expensive and dangerous it is. I'd rather the money and ingenuity went to solve some of the more humdrum medical problems we face.

Datun · 18/02/2019 15:21

daisyscott

Someone really wanting something, isn't a good enough reason.

Men can become (potential) parents in literally one second flat. They don't need to spend precious time, resources and take mammoth risks with a foetus in order to do it.

Plus autogynephilia is a condition where one of the characteristics is arousal over the thought of oneself being pregnant.

Under Stonewall's definition of transgender, this condition is accepted.

Most men who yearn to be parents do not get excited over the thought of being pregnant.

I don't buy any of it.

You can't advocate for extreme pornography on the one hand and wanting to lower the legal age of the people in it, and get misty eyed over being pregnant the next.

The two thoughts are incompatible.

daisyscott · 18/02/2019 15:23

Don't donate your womb then! And the discussion isn't about whether the earth has too many people or not - it's about what trans rights and what are not. Wine

daisyscott · 18/02/2019 15:24

Datun

That is an extreme generalisation of the male race Smile

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 18/02/2019 15:24

no body has a right to have a child, that's for sure

Datun · 18/02/2019 15:25

Don't donate your womb then!

Womb implantation into men is illegal. So not a trans right. At all.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 18/02/2019 15:25

the male race

Grin

crikey

I'm pretty sure males and females are both part of the human race

I know it doesn't always feel like it, but....

daisyscott · 18/02/2019 15:26

As long as both parties are happy, I think it's fine Halo

CosmicCanary · 18/02/2019 15:28

it's about what trans rights and what are not.

What are trans rights?

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 18/02/2019 15:29

As long as both parties are happy, I think it's fine

you think it's fine to experiment on live fetuses?

I fear your definition of fine and mine may be quite different daisyscott

any other horrific abuses of science that you'd like to define as 'fine'?

Datun · 18/02/2019 15:29

Males aren't a race, they're a sex, Daisy.

I do not generalising about men. I'm generalising about men with AGP. Many transwomen have AGP. It's simply a fact.

Fortunately there are laws to prevent people from doing what they like, even with people who consent.

Bittermints · 18/02/2019 15:30

Nobody has a right to reproduce. Nobody has a right to anyone else's body parts either before or after they die. I don't see how you think this is a trans rights issue when nobody else has the right to womb transplants either.

Bowlofbabelfish · 18/02/2019 15:30

why not donate it to someone else who really wants it?

Because it’s:

Not possible to implant a functional womb into a male
Illegal to implant a womb into a male
Illegal to implant an embryo into a male
Illegal to experiment on foetuses like this.

‘Really really wanting it’ shouldn’t override medical ethics. Or reality

R0wantrees · 18/02/2019 15:30

Seems much transactivism is now being focussed on the status of 'mother'

Telegraph article interviewing the transgender actor in the new Baptiste series:
'Baptiste star Talisa Garcia: 'I don't expect everyone to accept me as a woman'
My story is huge… but it’s not sad,” says Talisa Garcia, the Chilean-born English actress who plays Kim Vogel in Baptiste, the BBC’s new six-part crime drama spin-off of The Missing. Following a twist at the end of tonight’s episode in which French detective Julien Baptiste, played by Tcheky Karyo, discovers that Vogel was born male, Garcia has chosen to reveal for the first time that she, too, has had gender reassignment surgery, when she was 18.

“For me, it has always been a secret. I was a bit embarrassed, I suppose, of not being a ‘normal’ woman,” she admits, making air quotes with her hands. (continues)

concludes:
"Garcia also forthright in her belief that, in recent years, transgender rights activists may have done more harm to the cause than good. “This is where we get into the really hard bit,” she says. “Nowadays, we have to be very careful with what we say and what’s politically correct”. Although she won’t elaborate much further, she does say that transgender toilets are “the worst thing that could ever happen”.

“When will it stop?” she says. “We need to drop the labels. There are so many labels, people don’t know what’s what any more.”

While she thinks her appearance in Baptiste will help move the needle of public opinion on the issue of transgender, she hopes her next big role will be motherhood: she would love to start a family “if the right person comes along”. She knows she can’t have children of her own, but, having been adopted herself, doesn’t mind.

Until then, Garcia is keen to play a parent on screen. “When you cast a transgender woman who happens to be a mother, people will start looking at it for what it is: normal.”

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/talisa-garcia-like-character-baptiste-transgender/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget

Knicknackpaddyflak · 18/02/2019 15:34

Jane wallowing in the usual self indulgence I see.

Yes, I'll come off the transplant list the day some idiot medic is prepared to use bits of my body to torture a fetus for the emotional wishes of a male. Call me whatever names you like for it. Crack on.

You're sobbing into your tea because you weren't born with a uterus? Get a grip for pete's sake. I lost three kids who died inside me because my uterus failed to regulate hormones properly, so your mawkish imaginings of grief around 'if only I'd been born a different sex' seem a bit silly really.

misscockerspaniel · 18/02/2019 15:34

Datun Sorry, but you are wrong about "another man's sperm".

According to this report (below):"Six months after the surgery and the womb has healed, a donated egg would be fertilised with the transgender woman's own sperm and the embryo emplanted".

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6710751/Transgender-women-birth-time-thanks-pioneering-womb-transplants.html

Datun · 18/02/2019 15:35

Knicknackpaddyflak

Flowers

These people don't have the guts to be a woman.

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