Posie, please stop

[Sunshineofleith]

Beating yourself up. You, Venice and Julia have conquered the market. No other ‘feminist’ has managed this. How amazing are you all. Posie, you have managed so much by presenting a truth that a women is an adult human female that is scientifically proven has scared everyone. How amazing are you.
I await my t shirt with this fact. I will not be able to wear it as I have a child/teen, nearly an adult who thinks they are female. Your t shirt will go into a drawer but I know it’s there reminding me, when I am questioning myself for not affirming my child’s thought, that my son can not be female.
Keep up your fight. Stop listening to others who are jealous of your basic campaign and who try to intellectualise it with academic talk, when the simple truth gets the job done.
Stand up for us parents. No one else is. Stand up for our daughters and for our sons too. The parents voice needs heard. Focus on this. It does not matter to parents where you are aligned politically. But you know this. Keep doing what you are doing and fight for me because I’m not brave enough to stand up

The point is also what people want the ultimate aim to be. Yes, PP might appeal to a certain sector of the population, but that is not going to bring about political or legal change, which is surely what people want? A rethink on self-ID and more protection for women etc? What is needed is someone who speaks that language, who can frame the debate in a reasonable way and persuade politicians to listen. Someone like Tommy Robinson has a large following but nobody right-minded would touch him with a barge-pole. You might think that the only thing that matters is that people hear a certain message. But it’s going to be people like Rosa, not Posie who will be invited to consultations and meetings with politicians. I mention the impact she made in Scotland which is absolutely tremendous. Dismiss that at your peril.

There have been a load of feminists doing a fuck-tonne of hard work in Scotland and paving the way for Rosa Freedman to parachute in.

exLt is there any point at which you think she needs to take responsibility for who she associates with or is it basically limitless?

She wasn't 'associating' with a guy who took an unrequested selfie.

Also, the photo was on the internet for hours before Rosa retweeted it, together with Mr Racist’s pondering about the aryan race

Yep, on the Mot Dag / Venue FB, along with about 70 other photos.

I agree that it will be people like Rosa who are more likely to be asked around the table for political discussions, but as we've seen those discussions weren't happening - and they won't happen without popular pressure. You need your academics and your Posies, IMO.

I'll say it again. I remember Rosa herself admitting before she left Twitter that it was a far left event.

I have huge admiration for Julie Bindel but I'm still not going down the road of 'JB's enemy must be my enemy too.' Not without evidence. Because that's a very dangerous path indeed.

@Funkyfunkybeat12 She keeps finding herself in these situations because she's the only one getting off her ass to do anything about this war on women's rights. That's what happens when you don't position yourself safely behind a computer screen writing 'blogs'.

This is now the third time in a fortnight that I have seen people make serious allegations about Posie Parker and then failed to back them up.

This. As far as I'm concerned Posie, Venice and Julia speak for women like me, women who otherwise have very limited ways to get themselves heard. I am very thankful to them. They don't have the power of a university or other institution to give them credibility and opportunity to speak, so it's distressing to see those who do have such advantages take to twitter (of all places) to criticise, especially when the evidence for such criticism isn't there. There is a power imbalance as Lisa M pointed out on her thread the other night.

WeRiseUp and the work done by feminists risks being undone by someone like Posie. Sorry to say it but ‘spreading the message’ has little effect if people don’t take you seriously. She’s infamous now and she is damaging the cause enormously.

And as I pointed out before, Julie Bindel has managed to campaign tirelessly for women’s rights (not just a single issue) yet doesn’t speak at dodgy conferences or form alliances with pro-lifers.
If you want to change the law, telling the public that a woman is an adult human female won’t have much impact. The politicians know that full well but have to be seen to be right-on. Unless we get a UKIP government, the argument needs to be presented in a much more balanced and nuanced way and Posie Parker is unable to do this.

Women need both 'campaigns' - that of the academics giving their expertise, research and analysis in the political arena plus that of the ordinary women generating the climate of public pressure on parliamentarians.

Back in 2015, during the Transgender Equality Inquiry, as you know, those with expertise were eventually ignored, as evidenced in the final report that was published.

Four years later, the climate is very different. Ordinary women have changed that climate. The Fair Play For Women street campaign during the GRA consultation plus the separate "Woman: adult human female" campaign that helped to generate 100K+ responses chnaged that climate.

The experts doing their invaluable work in the political arena need those public campaigns to maintain their pressure to ensure that they are not ignored again.

There is no need for any expert working on this to feel any association with any of these public campaigns. Those campaigns exist to support the work our experts are doing because it is realised that this is what was lacking in 2015.

It's interesting FunkyFunkybeat12 that you have compared Posie Parker to Tommy Robinson
Says quite a lot about you.
All this shit must be manna from heaven for TRAs
Divide and conquer

I think the damage is being caused by people like Rosa Freedman tweeting absolute shite.

Before she had her meltdown and sacked
twitter she was on Posie's FB page being utterly disingenuous, rude and defamatory towards Posie, Venice Allen and Julia Long. Even going as far as to give Julia a dog. for not being an academic.

At the same time she was on Twitter retweeting and liking tweets by known TRAs. She even managed to really upset the singer(s) of the Vagina song that closed the conf by retweeting a TRA calling them Nazi's.

Posie isn't the problem here...

I think that it's easy to perceive the general public as far more "right on" than they actually are. If Brexit and trump have shown us anything it's that loud, right in lefty liberal narratives are not appealing to vast swathes of people.

Women need both 'campaigns' - that of the academics giving their expertise, research and analysis in the political arena plus that of the ordinary women generating the climate of public pressure on parliamentarians.

Exactly. I still think the GC academics do a great job but sometimes I think they're too wordy to get the message across as clearly as Posie Parker, Man Friday, Sandy Draw's Badly's cartoons, the sticker women or the Resisters (and apologies to all the activists I've left out). It's ridiculous to argue as if the academic voices are all that's needed.

Is it possible that all these people making unfounded claims about associations with the Far Right extremists are exactly the people who are causing the Far Right extremists to seek out prominent women in order to discredit the entirety of women's activity here?

Is it possible that some people are winding up others to a coiled spring that leads to them releasing quite explosively without full knowledge of the facts of any situation?

FactsAreNotMean
Well that definitely needed to be said

I've been on twitter and I've seen some terrible stuff.
Infighting is not going to help at all.

JackyHolyoake
I agree with your post above here and on the other thread.
Those who are so busy decrying people should take a look at themselves and see how far the rabbit hole have they been led

QuintadiMalago Yup! I strongly suspect that many are being played here.

And who is it that has the most to gain by working to discredit the entirety of women's activity here?

Patriarchal power is at work among some women here ... the notion that there is superiority and inferiority [dominance V subordination] ... and sadly it seems to be entrenched in some people ... that there are "superior" ways for women to behave and "inferior" ways for women to behave.

SpartacusAutisticusAHF Please correct your autocorrect .. my name is Jacky

Is it possible that some people are winding up others to a coiled spring that leads to them releasing quite explosively without full knowledge of the facts of any situation?

Quite, Jacky.

And is it also possible that there are a bunch of burned out women who are so exhausted by everything they've done and all the genderist hostility sent their way, that they are not necessarily making the best decisions every single time? And does it therefore behove we bystanders not to add to this by taking sides, attributing motives when we can't possibly know them, and putting even more strain on those women?

Enough already.

Exactly. I still think the GC academics do a great job but sometimes I think they're too wordy to get the message across as clearly as Posie Parker, Man Friday, Sandy Draw's Badly's cartoons, the sticker women or the Resisters (and apologies to all the activists I've left out). It's ridiculous to argue as if the academic voices are all that's needed.

Yes this.

There are lots of women that academic feminist voices won't ever reach. They will access the debate and understand what is at stake by reading in the DM about Posie or seeing Man Friday on breakfast tv. Conservative leaning women may have come to this issue via women like Julia Hartley-Brewer speaking out.

Women are about as diverse a grouping as you're going to get bar the category of human so it's important that campaigning and awareness is also diverse and undertaken by as many as possible.

The idea that everyone will get along is unattainable and left wing women don't 'own' this issue because it's one that affects all women and all women have a right to a voice.