Transgender child at DD’s school. Please help me write to the head?

[Comeymemo]

DD attends an independent co-Ed British international school. We are in a jurisdiction that provides for protection against sex discrimination, including in education. This country has no protection against discrimination on the basis of gender, and only recognises transgender persons when the person has undergone full reassignment surgery (including sterilisation). In other words, there is no right to self gender identification where we live.

The school is split in houses, all of which are either all boys or all girls. The school has a mix of boarders and non boarders.

We recently received a letter from the head, saying that a male pupil will be moving to a girl’s house after half term as the pupil is transgender. The letter states that the pupil will use the unisex accessible toilet including to undress (eg for sports). The letter does not state if the pupil is a boarder.

I want to write to the school outlining my concerns and would welcome any help.

The areas where I would like to get reassurance are:

• confirmation that the pupil will not be allowed to compete against girls or to be in girls’ teams for any sports
• confirmation that the pupil will not be allowed to play female parts in any dramatic productions (DD is into sports and drama and I don’t think it fair that female roles should be given to boys, as male parts are never available to girls)
• confirmation that the school will never allow the pupil to board in a girls’ house or to have access to girls’ boarding houses
• confirmation that girls will never be allowed or expected to share a bedroom with the pupil on any overnight trip
• confirmation that the school are not altering their records to reflect the pupil’s so-called self-ID, so that the pupil remains listed as male
• confirmation that the pupil is not taking the place of any girl on any awards or recognition list, such as for school prefect, scholarships or prizes that are only available to girls.
• would it be reasonable to request that DD is not in the same house as that pupil?

At this stage I don’t want to engage into a broader debate with the school over human rights, feminist theory or GC theory, so I’m trying to stay as down to earth as possible and seek clarification on practical areas.

Is there anything else you can think of that would be relevant in this context? Please feel free to direct me to other threads if this has been done before.

Many thanks 🙏

Do you have kids glitter?

weet

It doesn't matter where it comes from or why they do it. In the end the result is the same. Kids are being sold a lie. And those around them are abused emotionally in order to keep that lie up.

With all due respect, Hamster, how you choose to characterise your own sexual identity is fine, but you don't speak for all trans women. The majority of them do not perceive being trans the way you perceive it. And were someone to say to them, 'You are STILL men', they would find it offensive or ignorant.

A different transwoman posted on another thread that you had to sign a document indicating that you understood that changing sex was impossible before undergoing gender reassignment surgery.

I think that was some time ago (80s or 90s) so I don't know if that's still the case.

Very briefly: the sex/gender distinction, which tries to separate the biological and the cultural into neat self-contained parts, is highly problematic. Loads of feminists, myself included, find it misleading and unhelpful.

But on MN there is a core group of vocal posters who are utterly wedded to the validity of the sex/gender distinction, and I'm not going to change their minds with anything I post here.

In fact on MN I generally don't engage with the so-called 'gender-critical' contingent. But the original OP's post struck me as particularly over the top, because as I said before, it basically boiled down to, 'Please help me think of ways to convince this child's school to exclude her from a range of normal school activities.'

The OP seems to have disappeared however.

What I can't understand is the hatred, thinly disguised as concern

Same

Participating in drama for example. Anyone ever been to a pantomime - a woman plays principle boy and men are the dame and ugly sisters. So what if this child gets a female role in a play? The world won't come to an end. If they're the best actor then good for them

Exactly, and not a reason to exclude a trans child from playing certain roles which is what the OP wants and others agree (as women are underrepresented in acting roles they say) but that's NOT a reason to exclude a child from a play for crying out loud.

Hamster00

What you are saying isn't rhetoric. It's just that what you say suits some posters on this thread and so they hold it up as the way that everyone must think.

If you, as a trans woman, were to come on and say something that they disagreed with I doubt very much that they would change their views, admit they were wrong and decide that a trans woman knows more about it than they do.

Your story is your story and I greatly respect that. I don't think that you represent every trans person though do you?

Out of interest, what is your opinion on letting teenagers transition? Do you think it should be stopped until they are adults?

It doesn't matter where it comes from or why they do it. In the end the result is the same. Kids are being sold a lie. And those around them are abused emotionally in order to keep that lie up.

What lie are they being sold?

This child is not sleeping or changing with the girls. I would imagine that they are told why. So the school clearly aren't telling them that they have changed biological sex have they?

So what lie are they being told exactly?

Funkyfunkybeat12
I don't agree that the OP should ask for her DD to not be in the same house as the child. In fact I think most people have said that. Lots of threads on mumsnet start with a point of view that get debunk or debated, but no-one says "mumsnet is vile", or calls the thread nasty.

I've seen it asked lots of times, "what is it, this feeling that someone is a women" but it's never answered. I'd be happy for someone to say, I can't explain it, or you can only understand if you have that feeling.

Wrt trans as a fetish, the stonewall definition includes people for whom it is a fetish.

Admit they were wrong

Blimey. So every answer we have given here is wrong, is hatred, is disgusting.

You are a long way down the rabbit hole. Maybe you can join the Greens, they have a non men section for people that describe normal views about transing children as disgusting hatred. You will fit right in.

What I can't understand is the hatred, thinly disguised as concern. Participating in drama for example.

Why keep bringing this up? The OP said this, but many of us felt that this was not relevant. I would like to see any child allowed to play any part - since acting is all about pretending to be someone that you're not.

Do you have any other examples of this 'hate' that you've seen here? All I see is concern about the consequences of lying to children that they can change sex.

Children should be encouraged to be who they are. Their sex should not be a barrier to doing whatever they want to do.

Are you really living so far in the past that you think that some things are 'for boys' and others 'for girls'?

They are being moved to the girl house

That alone indicates they are in fact indulging it too far.

Why can't this child present however they want. In the boy's house?

The message that sends is that being a bit and being a girl is nothing more than a feeling and stereotypes

What lie are they being sold?

They're being told that they can change sex.

Blimey. So every answer we have given here is wrong, is hatred, is disgusting.

No, as nobody is (I don't think?) disputing biological facts, but some of the attitudes and comments is hatred or disgusting even if you don't want to admit that

Weetabix

If you, as a trans woman, were to come on and say something that they disagreed with I doubt very much that they would change their views, admit they were wrong and decide that a trans woman knows more about it than they do.

(a) I'd never demand a woman changed their viewpoint on anything, and (b) everyone's opinion is equally valid. I'm just stating irrefutable facts.

Your story is your story and I greatly respect that. I don't think that you represent every trans person though do you?

I didn't claim to.

Out of interest, what is your opinion on letting teenagers transition? Do you think it should be stopped until they are adults?

I think there are agencies at work that are pushing a dangerous agenda and using off-label untested drugs to further that agenda. I also think that social/peer pressure as well as a "trend"/contagion is influencing under-developed minds into making decisions that may well change in later life.

I also think these particular agencies are using "trans" as a form of twisted conversion therapy which is inherently homophobic.

They're being told that they can change sex.

I'm sorry. I missed that. Can you link to where the OP shows that the school is saying that?

weet

So if they know they cabt change sex why move to the girl house.

What kind of adult enforces the fact theres something wrong with them for their likes and dislikes to the point they have to move?

Come now Weetabix

I am getting the feeling that you have to twist everything,.

And seeing that in boarding school is ok whilst a trans girl who associates with girls during lessons and at meal times poses a risk of contagion?

Actually boarding schools will all have strong social media policies designed to prevent access to unhealthy channels.

I was saying that some of those kids are very "persuasive" just as other Social Media influencers can be. Teenagers listen to peers. Which is why schools will keep an eye on "influencers" within the student body. And why it is important that a trans kids is not treated as brave and stunning and entitled to special treatment. Just some calm watchful waiting.

Or would you in preference advocate the Mermaids approach.

School is awful. High school is awful. It can take years after that to find your place in the world .

We need to teach tools to handle being a bit different. That it's ok. That eventually you will find where you are meant to be

We shouldn't be pushing or allowing things that are completely dependent on other people reinforcing ideas .

Here you are Weetabix

The school is split in houses, all of which are either all boys or all girls.

We recently received a letter from the head, saying that a male pupil will be moving to a girl’s house after half term as the pupil is transgender.

If the school is moving the pupil to a girls' house, that is colluding in the lie that the boy is a girl.

The post I was replying to, though, was one which was talking in more general terms. Children are being told that they can change sex - there are organisations like GIRES and Mermaids going into schools telling children that they can change sex.

www.gires.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Penguin-Story-Trans-Boy.pdf

(as women are underrepresented in acting roles they say)

What do you mean by "they say". It sounds as if you think it's just conjecture. I specially found data on the subjuct to back up my view, and used the guardian and a theatre mag which I hoped would be factual.

I think a good response from the school would be to say, right lets use this as a spring board to change our drama dept. Lets mix up the sexes, girls can play boys roles and vice versa. Lets find some interesting material where gender is discussed. But by the OP raising this with them, it opens up discussion for ideas.

No the world wont end if a trans girl plays a female role. Same as it wont end when a trans women, wins a female cycling race, or a trans women wins woman of the year, or a trans women is on a women only shortlist, or wins a STEM award for women. But it's not right, and we need to discuss how we make it right for everyone.

Shutting down debate by saying we are transphobes, vile or horrible isn't going to help. Because it just adds fuel to the misogyny that says women, keep quite and put up with shit, your not suppose to have an opinion.

Hamster00

I'm not suggesting that you would ask anyone to change their minds. I'm simply saying that your views support some of the views held on here and so they are happy to present your views as proof that they are "right". Were you to post different views I am quite sure that they would tell you that you are wrong, rather than accept your views as valid.

I agree with your concerns about medication etc. But what is your view on allowing teens to transition as in this case? How can schools support students going through this?

A lot of posters here have a problem with forcing children to "lie" in regards to the use of pronouns. Do you think it's ok for another classmate to call a trans girl he for example?

Do we help children to transition socially (is that the right term?) rather than medically and if so how is that achieved in school when some activities are sex segregated?

weet

I would tell ids to use their name Rhys about as far as it goes.

Do you think children should be made to call a kid they have known as a boy for all those years as "she". Why do their feelings not matter?

Kids need to trust adults around them . If adults start lying to them then that leaves kids in a very vulnerable position.

That's

Stupid auto correct

Needmoresleep

Sorry I wasn't clear. You referred to binders. When I said see that I wasn't referring to youtube videos, I meant actually see it in real life because their dorm mate wears one.

Is that not raising awareness to a higher level than say a trans girl being in your class?

Yet people are frothing about the risks of contagion (from a trans girl) on one hand whilst advocating that a trans boy be kept with the girls, sharing rooms etc on the other hand?

I just find this a very strange argument.

And I of course would not tolerate bullying of any kind. They don't have to be anyones best friend but they at the very least are told to be civil akd respectful

But nor would I tolerate the adults bullying my kids by forcing them to lie .