I've realised that I just don't like men very much...

[SandAndSnow]

And I wanted to talk through it a bit, if that's ok. I hope this is the right place.

I'm sitting on a train next to a terrible man spreader so I'm feeling a bit raged at the moment, but it's also made me realise that I increasingly tend to treat men with caution and, if I'm honest, dislike.

I'm in my early thirties, have been sexually assaulted by 3 different boys/men, had a truly awful experience with a bullying (male) obstetrician, my father is an emotionally and at times physically abusive bully and I've been passed over for promotion in favour of a younger and less well qualified colleague by a male boss. As well as all the regular crap like street harassment, manspreading etc. I'm happily married, and I have a couple of male friends, but I'm generally much more comfortable and happy in the company of other women.

Now, perhaps I've been unlucky, and I need to just get over all of this. I'm entirely happy to be told this! And I'm happy to be told that this isn't normal, and I should seek help for this too.

But I wonder if other women feel the same, and that this is actually a rational response to the experiences which I've had?

I understand OP you've had done horrible experiences. I fortunately have not had the same experiences but certainly have met some dickheads and been subjected to veiled and unveiled sexism.

However I do know some brilliant men which, as a mother of a boy, reassures me. It's not fair for a teenage male finding his place in the world to face sexism either (his sister and I can generalise disparagingly about men sometimes) - I hope he is given a fair chance in life and will treat women with respect.

I love the company of women, especially older women. Men, meh.

I like the company of decent people.

I don't think whether they would stop or not has anything much to do with whether they think they're a bad person or not. It very obviously depends on the circumstances and situation.

Surely though if you view all men as a PP stated then you are likely not going to stop and help?

Why would you stop to help someone that you viewed as likely to be a rapist, a criminal etc etc based only on their sex?

What if he needed help and no one stopped?
Nobody is likely to stop anyway. Especially not for a young man. Young men are the victims of lots of violent crime, nobody steps in to help them (and often when they do they get killed or injured themselves). If their car breaks down nobody is likely to stop and help. If they are standing in the middle of the high street crying nobody is going to stop and ask what's wrong.
Mind you, almost nobody would do any of that for a young woman either.

I have no idea, Weetabix, you'd have to ask the PP if they would help a man who was hurt/in trouble?

I think if we're honest most women do treat men with these things in mind - when you're on your own at night or in an isolated place and a man comes towards you, you know the risk that something bad will happen to you is much, much higher than if it was a woman.

The parking ticket situation is different, and not about immediate risk to yourself and of course that individual man might be wonderful. But it's not hurting that man to hold back because you feel upset about the likelihood of helping a nasty piece of work, is it?

And as for a man in trouble / injured I would of course help (unless I felt in danger myself), most people would - that again is a different situation.

Oooo scathing weetabix

They are different situations. Not giving a man a free ticket doesn't affect him in the slightest, it's a personal decision and entirely harmless.

Not helping someone who's been run over or whatever is harmful. The fact that he may be an awful person wouldn't stop me trying to help, because a) he might not be and b) even awful people should get medical help, that's a basic human need.

If they are standing in the middle of the high street crying nobody is going to stop and ask what's wrong.
Mind you, almost nobody would do any of that for a young woman either.

I would and so would most people round here - in a capital city in the UK.

Do you really think that a woman would stop to help a man? I think some would. I think a lot wouldn't.
You're right, and vice versa is also true. If what you're arguing is that men are somehow disadvantaged by being tarred with the man brush, I disagree.
I bet if you asked 100 dads whether their daughter should stop and help a crying man at night most would say no and mention Ted Bundy!

"But I wonder if other women feel the same, and that this is actually a rational response to the experiences which I've had?"

Totally rational. And positively deciding to not pay 100% attention to the needs of men (even random man in car park and ticket), and instead choose to centre females, and positively spend time only with women, is something that most feminists I have known found useful and instructive at some point To just not have to pay attention to male needs and male behaviour, just for a bit. Doesn't mean you have to become a lesbian separatist overnight............

So I was burgled and had my bank cards and car stolen by a woman (who got caught and is in prison) but I shouldn't hold her responsible because she might have been left high and dry by a man? Do me a favour. I didn't go out and commit crime as a result of this woman robbing me. There is such a thing as personal responsibility

Of course there is personal responsibility. But it’s never that straightforward. Women and especially mothers don’t commit crimes like that in a vacuum.

If you’re really interested in understanding what I’m getting at, google Julie Bindel and have a read of what she has to say on the subject of women in prisons. They are often some of the most vulnerable in society.

BrinkPink my marriage was a lot like yours.
I have two teenage sons who are better at pulling their weight round the house then their Dad ever was. And they sulk less.

NAMALT but the number of decent blokes is low compared with the knob heads. I'm happy on my own TBH.

BrinkPink good for you, most people wouldn't I'm afraid.
USA
That was in the US but I'd be very surprised if our rates were much higher. From personal experience people tend to keep walking.

I disagree. I think the parking ticket is the "broken window". Giving it to a man causes you know harm but is a nice (I know how you all love that word, but still, it is) thing to do in a "pay it forward" kind of way. No, the man is probably none the wiser that you didn't give it to him because he's a man but I bet that there are other situations where it is apparent. That surely makes an impact.

Nobody is likely to stop anyway. Especially not for a young man. Young men are the victims of lots of violent crime, nobody steps in to help them (and often when they do they get killed or injured themselves). If their car breaks down nobody is likely to stop and help. If they are standing in the middle of the high street crying nobody is going to stop and ask what's wrong.
Mind you, almost nobody would do any of that for a young woman either.

Sadly I think that this is true.

I would and have helped to stop a man. As a fellow human being.

That isn't the same as who I would seek out for company.

stopped to help

A man was once lying comatose across the pavement near my home, so I figured not much of a risk to me. I tried to talk to him and called an ambulance, then once I did that, other people stopped including a nurse.

I can't get my head round people not stopping though. And when I have needed help (once when I had horrendous morning sickness / feeling faint on the tube, even when I've been in tears over stropping toddlers) people have been lovely. Mostly women, but some men.

Why would you stop to help someone that you viewed as likely to be a rapist, a criminal etc etc based only on their sex?

Well, look, this might be a bit simplistic, but if you flip what you’re saying and go with the premise that every man is a good egg and deserves to be treated how you’d like to be treated, because we’re all human beings and in it together, well that ‘benefit of the doubt’ has been getting women killed for years.

Would I stop to help a man who had been injured in a car accident? Absolutely. Because it’s the decent thing to do, but also, because if he’s injured, he’s not a risk to me.

Would I stop to help a crying man in the street? Absolutely not. I’d assess it as a risk not worth taking.

TwitterLovesMAPs

I doubt anyone commits a crime in a vacuum. I am sure that most people in prison have been treated badly, have been failed by their parents, by society, are victims in some regard.

At what point do you stop making excuses and start holding them responsible?

The man in prison who is illiterate, who was beaten by his father, was left to run wild by a mother who gave up on him - is it not his fault then that he joined a gang, got involved in county lines and then killed someone?

What if his dad was brought up in care and so didn't know how to be an effective parent? Is it his fault? Where does the blame lie?

The problem with stopping to help a man-which I hope I would do- is that women have to be wary of men. I wouldn’t blame a woman for deciding that it was too risky, I’m afraid. In the same way that women have to be wary of a man who offers to help them- because his intentions may not be good. And men could actually do something about all this. They could certainly do a lot to make sure their sons grow up in very different world.

I'm pleasantly surprised that so many would stop to help but then I find the parking ticket scenario even more weird.

Many of you would stop to help a man, which possibly could incur a risk, but wouldn't give a man a parking ticket because statistically he could have done all of those things listed above?

Is that not curious?

And men could actually do something about all this.
I think the fact that they don't means they can't be suffering too much from women assuming the worst about them.