I've realised that I just don't like men very much...

[SandAndSnow]

And I wanted to talk through it a bit, if that's ok. I hope this is the right place.

I'm sitting on a train next to a terrible man spreader so I'm feeling a bit raged at the moment, but it's also made me realise that I increasingly tend to treat men with caution and, if I'm honest, dislike.

I'm in my early thirties, have been sexually assaulted by 3 different boys/men, had a truly awful experience with a bullying (male) obstetrician, my father is an emotionally and at times physically abusive bully and I've been passed over for promotion in favour of a younger and less well qualified colleague by a male boss. As well as all the regular crap like street harassment, manspreading etc. I'm happily married, and I have a couple of male friends, but I'm generally much more comfortable and happy in the company of other women.

Now, perhaps I've been unlucky, and I need to just get over all of this. I'm entirely happy to be told this! And I'm happy to be told that this isn't normal, and I should seek help for this too.

But I wonder if other women feel the same, and that this is actually a rational response to the experiences which I've had?

Shee I meant men as a class. But you knew that. Which makes me question your motives here (not for the first time).

slagging off men to this extent

Interesting way to describe the thread as a whole.

“Women different opinions dare to speak up and not pipe down when told to by other women, reads frustrating oookay”

I have no problem at all with people having different opinions I have a massive problem with people (I suspect) disingenuously misrepresenting mine

Criticism of men as a class, discussion of the use of porn and prostitution, domestic violence, rape. The way that low level entitlement takes a huge amount of our energy to either address or just facilitate and get on with.

This does not equate to slagging off men or suggesting that we got the only good husband.

With the message below
Hi everyone,
This seems like a good opportunity to intervene on this thread. We had wanted, as ever, to allow for discussion but this does seem rather to have descended into tit-for-tat and we're not sure it is achieving anything any more. What we'd like to do is lock the thread now rather than be forced to delete it for becoming a bunfight. We hope that meets with general approval.

Bertrand I agree it's a weird thread. It's like certain people are trying to tie us up in knots to distract us for some reason and I can't figure out why. A bit like the anal sex one the other day.

Eh, littledog?

I have no problem at all with people having different opinions I have a massive problem with people (I suspect) disingenuously misrepresenting mine

Not doing that AT ALL, and it's sad you think anyone disagreeing is.

I don’t think you have to look far on mumsnet to find heterosexual women who thought they’d married decent men and found out they weren’t. Just look in the relationship threads, or AIBU.
It’s not exactly a rare occurrence.

So I’m not sure what your somebody has to be married to a bellend point is. I think that yes unfortunately lots of heterosexual women end up with bellends, or at least had a relationship with one.

You also are not acknowledging that men and heterosexual women have a special relationship that you do not have with other women, despite claiming to prefer women to men. It's not just like any other relationship you have in your life.

What exactly is your point here? Just because you are sexually attracted to men, men can’t act indecently?

“Not doing that AT ALL, and it's sad you think anyone disagreeing is.”

I don’t. I think any woman who claims never to have been at all wary of men, or never to have suggested her child is wary when our and about (cf the train scenario) is being disingenuous. Or is the only woman I have met in a very long life who hasn’t

Or is the only woman I have met in a very long life who hasn’t

so anyone with differing experiences is automatically disegenous or not to be believed, sounds about right

A class is made up of individual men.

It cannot be the case that you are the only women who believe they have found a good men, and the most important human in the world to them. All heterosexual women think this, you are talking about the most important person in other womens lives. You must think that an awful lot of women are with a wrong 'un. Unsurprisingly women don't agree with you.

I'm sorry, but claiming this thread has not been slagging off men is inaccurate.

I think any woman who claims never to have been at all wary of men, or never to have suggested her child is wary when our and about (cf the train scenario

in those instances I said I taught them risk assessment and to be careful round strangers in general not just men

“so anyone with differing experiences is automatically disegenous or not to be believed, sounds about right”

No. Just this particular experience. You’re doing it again.

This does not equate to slagging off men or suggesting that we got the only good husband

But you can't all have got a good one, that would be a bit of luck surely ?

so anyone with differing experiences is automatically disegenous or not to be believed, sounds about right hmm

This. It's bizarre how disagreeing means disingenuous

You’re doing it again

No, seriously - not believing other women (you're insinuating that) or being told to pipe down by others, how can you think that's right?
No I do not think all men are a threat just for existing even if you do.

“in those instances I said I taught them risk assessment and to be careful round strangers in general not just men”
Yes. It is very unusual for a parent not to think that on the balance of probabilities their child is likely to be safer alone with a woman than with a man. Very very unusual.

This. It's bizarre how disagreeing means disingenuous

It so is!

“No I do not think all men are a threat just for existing even if you do.”
I don’t.

So. Just to be clear. You think that you or your child are just as likely to be assaulted/chatted up/made to feel uncomfortable by a woman as by a man?

Weetabixandshreddies

"I think a lot of this, not including actual crimes, but about entitled behaviour, laziness, misogynistic views is down to how you let people treat you"

Wow. Don't think I have ever found Andrea Dworkins message about all women so difficult.

I don’t think we’re the only women to have found decent men

Why on earth would I think that????

I’ve never met your husband. I have zero view on him whatsoever, he could be Jesus Christ himself for all I know.

But surely it’s not an unusual experience for a heterosexual women to have had a relationship with a man who they thought was nice but turned out to be a bellend?

Not all women have the same standards either, I know women who watching pornography and their husbands going to a lap dancing club wouldn’t be a problem for them.

Have you spent any time on the relationship boards here at all?? It’s literally post after post of women saying ‘I thought my husband was decent but it turns out he’s a bellend’.

Not all men obviously.

Yeah, only people who are having problems post in the first place really though,the decent no problem ones just go about business and you don't hear of them so gets skewed to one experience