Posie Parker in the USA

[lucydo]

I am aware that there already long threads on this, but would anyone mind just giving me the basic information about what so many people are objecting to? Is it just that she has attended an event run by a Right Wing organisation? Or is there more?
It just looks like a pile-on by left-wingers on my twitter feed.
In all events, it's a TRA dream - divide and rule.
Again, before anyone flames me, I know that there are 2 long threads on this, but I gave up the will to read them after people going on about breakfasts for post after post.

BlackShutters "I'm American and I've been watching FWR for a couple of years now. Am remembering correctly? Didn't the tide start to turn once a few right wing journalists started commenting?"

I think you are right and also one point of spreading the word about what the new approach to transgender issues is doing for young females (especially) is simply to talk about it.

If we only talk to people we know and like our influence will be tiny!

Bullshit bullshit it's all bullshit. I'm glad they did it. Is there some law of the universe, floating around in the ether, that says women have to be nice at all times?

Funkyfunkybeat12
Here is Posie with the ‘fabulous’ Emily Zinos, ardent anti-abortionist. So clearly as Emily is fabulous, reproductive rights is something that Posie is clearly willing to sacrifice for the greater good.

Women are entitled to be anti-abortionist if they want to, and many are for reasons that have nothing to do with control, and everything to do with compassion. Who are you to say that nobody should talk to women who think differently to you?

Read it
Excellent

Everyone needs to read
EmbracingTheMadness link
womensliberationfront.org/posie-parker-in-the-house/

POSIE PARKER IN THE HOUSE
WOLF
FEBRUARY 1, 2019
'A report back to members, from Capitol Hill'
(extract)
"I wasn’t sure what we were getting into when we heard a few weeks ago that Posie Parker and Venice Allan and Julia Long wanted to come to the US to protest Twitter for acting like misogynist jerks. At the least, it sounded like it would be interesting. We offered to help put them in touch with decision makers here, so that people in the US could hear how bad it is living in a country with no First Amendment protections and self-identification of sex treated like a civil right.

On the last three days of their visit, these women spent hours lobbying on the Hill – going from office to office with myself or fellow WoLF board member, Kara Dansky, attending briefings, and presenting feminist arguments against ‘gender identity’ ideology to any Democrats or Republicans who would listen.

Earlier in the process of planning our activities, I’d thought they might be tired the last day of their trip, and suggested that we could go to a Smithsonian museum or something similar if they wanted to build in some rest. No, they wanted to work that day, talk to anyone who would meet with them. Posie said that she felt she had a duty to make every day of the trip count on behalf of the people who had supported her coming. I therefore set up a full day of meetings Wednesday with House and Senate offices who were willing to speak to us. Venice went around to canvass offices where we didn’t have appointments, while Posie and Julia came with us to every meeting." (continues)

"It is difficult and tiring to tell your story to half a dozen strangers a day — even when they are warm and hospitable, which they all were — and not everyone is willing or able to do this, for a variety of reasons. They didn’t complain once, they were wonderful company. We were listened to for roughly half an hour to 45 minutes every time, incredible generosity from busy people, in no small part because Posie and Julia are captivating speakers who connect with the people they’re talking to.

Outside the office of our first meeting for the morning was a large group of people with a film crew, and people being interviewed in turn. We realized when we got close that it was a delegation from the Human Rights Campaign (HRC,) at whose offices we’d been protesting this past Saturday. (The president of HRC makes close to half a million dollars a year in salary to ostensibly represent women like myself, and I can’t say I’m impressed.) I recognized Sarah McBride in the group, the National Press Secretary at HRC, from their speech at the 2016 Democratic National Convention.

McBride has a very moving life story, and has suffered terrible losses. This is inarguable, and we are sorry for those tragedies. We would be for any person.

McBride is also a public political figure, who was there that morning representing HRC in an official capacity at the Cannon House Office Building, encouraging Congress to support the sterilization of minor children in the guise of a human rights agenda of “acceptance” and “inclusion.” McBride was there that morning to argue that girls in school have no right to bodily privacy when changing for gym class or when first managing menstruation in what should be girls-only bathrooms. McBride was there to argue for an end to girls’ sports, because they want boys to be able to join the girls’ sports teams. McBride was there to overturn decades of women’s rights advocacy, at the head of a movement that has brutally silenced women who dissent.

McBride came to Cannon HOB as a public representative of an organization that claims to represent the human rights of all lesbian and bisexual women, including myself and Julia Long. Yet when Posie and Julia decided to see if McBride would answer their questions, this salaried advocate for the LGBTQ could not even turn around to make a single expression of sympathy to a lesbian woman who clearly felt hurt and betrayed by HRC’s policies, not even to issue a fig leaf of sorry-you-feel-that-way concern. If McBride was truly in too fragile a state to be questioned in public by quite small women then maybe they’re in the wrong line of work

I’m not sure I could have done what Julia and Posie did. But when they rushed over, I thought about the 19-year-old woman who stood behind me on Sunday at the library, where we’d earlier heard from Lierre Keith, Meghan Murphy, Kara Dansky, and Brie Jontry. This young woman came to tell a room full of strangers that she had started transition about five years ago, had been on testosterone and already had a double mastectomy, only to realize that she was a lesbian, and a woman, and to wish someone had told her when she was younger that that was okay. " (continues)

I see you too lang

Woman’s rights movement?

Quite

I’ll say it again; this isn’t the time to be nitpicking about personal politics or belief systems it is the time for women to work together to support the very definition of who we are. The rest of it can wait until I am assured my child won’t grow up in a world where women’s rights are non existent.

When young girls are getting their breast cut off and young guys are getting their penises cut off on live tv.
It should be concerning for all of us not just ppl that we like

The rest of it can wait until I am assured my child won’t grow up in a world where women’s rights are non existent

I’m sure all parents feel this. Which is why organisations such as the heritage foundation should be a movement that feminists are fighting against to protect our daughters rights, not rubbing shoulders with.

Thank you for sharing that Embracing.

"I’m not sure I could have done what Julia and Posie did. But when they rushed over, I thought about the 19-year-old woman who stood behind me on Sunday at the library, where we’d earlier heard from Lierre Keith, Meghan Murphy, Kara Dansky, and Brie Jontry. This young woman came to tell a room full of strangers that she had started transition about five years ago, had been on testosterone and already had a double mastectomy, only to realize that she was a lesbian, and a woman, and to wish someone had told her when she was younger that that was okay.

I watched the We Need To Talk meeting and the young woman's speech at the end referred to was so powerful and moving.

Does anyone have a link to video of the event?
Its really important that her voice is heard.

When young girls are getting their breast cut off and young guys are getting their penises cut off on live tv.

yes

for fucks sake, a young male was voluntarily castrated during the making a of a TV programme recently and main stream media raised not a single fucking murmur

this is monstrous

More on fundamentalist genderism being an aggressively classist ideology that has no interest in the actually marginalised - no matter what some very disingenuous posters suddenly becoming prolific on FWR would have you believe - from Lucy of the Deptford People's Project:

Statement from Working class community workers from Deptford. We are attending the women’s meeting at the House of Commons today. We would like to offer an explanation as to why this is necessary. See below

After many years of working at grass roots within our community we have recently been made aware of an issue that directly effects the working class and women in our area.

You must understand we are not graduate activists or or women’s rights campaigners. We are community workers and our concerns regarding changes to the GRA come from a lifetime of personal experience and having worked with some of the most marginalise people in our area.

The majority of our recent projects have been working with rough sleepers, the homeless and those that have been excluded from society. The issues they face include: unsupported/ mental health illness, sexual violence and prostitution, childhood trauma and abuse...

domestic violence, poverty, ex care system issues, addiction, prison,rehab,homelessness and austerity.

The people in our community that we represent are the most likely to access/ be placed in sex segregated services.Some have and will access all of these services.

Our local political and community organisations have been infiltrated by a group of well meaning white middle class goldsmith (uni) students. These people although well intentioned have rail roaded many vital projects by introducing identity policies and intersectional thinking. They do this without truly understanding or experiencing working class issues.

Meetings we have attended for the purpose of discussing community housing projects and women’s wellness etc have been used as a platform to re educate working class people on the new academic language expected within our organisations.

As anyone from a working class back ground will tell you, these theories and ideologies rarely translate into working class communities.

The extremely small number of transsexual (I use the old term as this has a very different meaning to the university umbrella term currently thrown about) members of the community are and have always been excepted and protected by community organisations.

We are now informed that transgender people are being routinely abused (mis gendered) and should be protected above all other marginalised groups. All that has changed is privileged students have adopted a set of gender identities that allow them to be considered marginalised.

The people we encountered were far from marginalised. In fact they were highly educated, openly classist and aggressive.

This new politics doesn’t equate in our community or for the people we support. We are dealing with working class issues with severely marginalised people and the trans lobby is a gentrification of working class social and political movements. Note the difference between trans lobby and trans people who we support.

No one will discuss our concerns regarding self id. Our local Labour Party has refused to comment or debate with the working class people.

We are attending the meeting this evening as this is only place that is willing to discuss theses issues.

When we are being verbally abused and called fascists because we are concerned about the effects of policy change on marginalised people it is a direct attack on working class women and grass roots organisations.

when sharing information about this event and attempt to shut it down be aware that you are complicit in the silencing of not only women but working class people who have not afforded the privileged of a safe space or university education. Thank you x

So don't lecture me about right wingers. Any compromise with genderist ideology is a compromise with the fucking right wing.

It is absolutely monstrous.

Even if the result is the forced enslavement of all women, I am still not going to say that the word/meaning/concept/material reality of woman/female includes any man/male who wants it.

2 + 2 does not = 5... even with a gun to my head, or your head or your children's heads. We give in to this, 'they' will be able to do anything. We will be putty. This is not a test. This is the real 1984.

I’m another poster who couldn’t watch the video at first. Now I have and I’m
Is that it? Seriously?
When I first heard about this I honestly thought Posie and Julia had invaded McBride’s privacy and threatened them. I saw GC feminists on Twitter talking about the right to feel safe. I don’t mind admitting I was worried.
I don’t see Posie and Julia threatening anyone. They don’t swear. They don’t even raise their voices. The worst you can say about it is that they entered a room without knocking (a room in the senate I gather, so not a private workplace) and that they interrupted a meeting.

I can understand TRAs trying to capitalise on it - if course they will. What I don’t understand is the reaction from some GC feminists although I get that the left are tribal.
What on earth is this really about? I feel like I’m the only one who doesn’t kniw what’s going on here.

The ultimate aim in all of this is to protect woman’s rights, so why is teaming up with people who want to strip those rights away anyway, being condoned?

No-one is "teaming up" with anyone. Talking to people or even attending a meeting is NOT teaming up. Unless I "team up" with my postman daily, which is just weird (even though we have on occasion even discussed politics).

No-one "condones" anything. Posie is an autonomous individual we as individual women can agree or disagree with what she says or does but we're not part of some organisation issuing a press statement. No "condoning" going on.

MN is just a load of different women, and some men, chatting, exchanging ideas, discussing facts, evidence, forming opinions. I think this, possibly more than anything else, is why MN is so hated. And the women on here who command respect and trust - they've earned it the hard way over long periods of time often, by patient explaining, proven integrity, putting women and children first, evidence based assertions. Not because we've been told to like them under a 3 line whip.

Funkyfunkybeat12 you do realise girls having their womb cut out, before they really know if they will ever want to use it, does also affect their reproductive rights?

Earlywalker "The point is that ‘is it right to be teaming up with anti-woman protestors because they share the same views on trans people, albeit nost likely with different reasons behind their view?’"

Did you listen to the panel?

I expect you are using 'trans people's here as shorthand but not all the people identifying currently as trans will actually be trans. I think the desistance rate is growing.

Plus many are concerned that non-trans males will use all these new laws to access women for nefarious purposes, beat womem at sports, and recruit young people into a life time of drugs and surgery etc.

So please can we be very clear that many/most/all/some of us here are very concerned about the rights of trans people to live and work on peace.

We ate concerned for tans safety in every possible way, some have trans-identifying youth on their families, and are concerned about legal changes that will affect womem and children.

We need to unite.

I'm happy to stand alongside others who share my views on this even if they do not share other views.

Most of us do this all the time at work, at our kids school, at church etc. And we keep our humanity.

Not because we've been told to like them under a 3 line whip

This. I won't be obeying the orders of elite left feminists any more than I will be obeying the orders of genderists or the orders of men or the orders of right wingers.

Twitter feminists can try to create hierarchies out of GC resistance all they like. I won't be partaking.

Where would the line be drawn? Or is there no line? As long as they don’t want ‘trans rights’ for whatever reason, theyre on our side?

I wouldn't write to my local MP on this issue as he has voted against gay marriage, so personally I would draw the line way before the Heritage Foundation.

However, which trans rights do you think people on MN don't want?

That WoLF piece from Natasha Chart is fantastic. She makes some excellent points. R0 has reproduced an important section below but it's very much worth reading the whole thing.

I respect your morals merrymouse my issue is with the attitude that the trans issue is the most important issue and therefore we should work with whoever we can to fight it, even if their core morals are anti-woman.

I use the term ‘trans rights’ loosly in that post as I’m not really sure what term to use tbh. Anti self-ID, anti allowing trans people to be seen as their preffered sex, anti sex including gender. Anti-transitioning?

I’ve noticed that a lot of Twitter GC feminists are academics. I really admire the likes of Jane Clare Jones and Rosa Freedman and I think they’re very brave to speak out, but sometimes I really struggle to follow what they’re saying. Posie on the other hand cuts through it all and sometimes she’s far more effective because of that.

Not sure what my point is here just trying to figure out what’s really going on!

OldCrone that quote is from the law that has been in force for 15 years without losing the ability to define sex. There are exemptions that apply, allowing exclusions based on biological sex. I am in favour of strengthening those and clarifying when they apply. However, self-ID refers to the procedure of getting a GRC- a procedure that has been in place for quite a long time.

Funky you really don't seem to have much understanding of the law in this area. Do you think getting a GRC is based on self-ID? It's not, and the change to such a system is one of the things we're fighting against here. At present you need a diagnosis of gender dysphoria and proof that you've lived in your "acquired gender" for 2 years. Only around 3500 men have become legally women in the 15 years since the law was passed. Self-ID would open the floodgates to people who have other motivations for changing their legal sex, unrelated to a dislike of living as their natal sex.

As far as exemptions go, as I said in an earlier post:
What do you do if the person with their newly-issued birth certificate swears that they're not trans? And who decides what is 'a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim'? The courts could get very busy if a lot more people were getting GRCs.

I agree that the law in this area needs to be clarified and strengthened. But just allowing people to change their legal sex creates a legal nightmare.

"I won't be obeying the orders of elite left feminists any more than I will be obeying the orders of genderists or the orders of men or the orders of right wingers."

Co-signed.