Posie Parker in the USA

[lucydo]

I am aware that there already long threads on this, but would anyone mind just giving me the basic information about what so many people are objecting to? Is it just that she has attended an event run by a Right Wing organisation? Or is there more?
It just looks like a pile-on by left-wingers on my twitter feed.
In all events, it's a TRA dream - divide and rule.
Again, before anyone flames me, I know that there are 2 long threads on this, but I gave up the will to read them after people going on about breakfasts for post after post.

Yes thats what early is referring to

But oxy was very clear that she was replying 'i dont care' to what early finds offensive

I watched the Heritage Foundation panel video and both the host (Ryan Anderson, somebody most of us here would regard as a foe, quite rightly) and two of the panellists made it very clear that they were coming together for this one single issue and that they would continue to oppose one another on almost everything else

I haven't seen this. I tried to watch the one referenced a couple of posts above re the women speaking about lesbianism, but the sound quality was dreadful. That's good though. I also hope that differing attitudes towards gender and what it is and whether it is 'essential' and women and their social roles as well as places vis a vis men are also acknowledged. I also hope that the homophobia of the Christian right is critiqued as a probable cause of many young people choosing to identify as trans.

But oxy was very clear that she was replying 'i dont care' to what early finds offensive

It wasn't actually clear to me. I'll go back and re-read. It read to me more as 'I don't care' re the abuses that Every had spoken about.

YetAnotherSpartacus

I literally highlighted what I was responding to. The statement she found offensive, about trans rights being the most important issue. I don’t see how I could possibly have been more clear. Note, that was in response to my comment re rape, which she never even acknowledged. Anywhere.

The fundamentalist Christian right is older, richer, more experienced in political organising and a fuck of a lot more powerful than we are. I do think we need to be very wary of who is in control here and of being used. It's also deeply, deeply patriarchal and misogynist.

I agree we have to be wary, but the left is against us at the moment, so we can either be on our own, or accept some limited assistance from other sources - on this issue only.

One question which really needs an answer is this. Why is the left so on-board with trans ideology? Why are the left embracing what is undoubtedly a misogynistic and homophobic movement and portraying concerned women as bigots?

Can one of the people who is so against what Posie is doing answer those questions? Gender ideology is regressive. Why has the left embraced it so completely?

I don’t care, I find pretty much all your disingenuous contributions offensive. So what

This was Oxy's statement. I think it was rude and dismissive.

My opinion put simply - say you’re a woman who’s just been raped. What do you fear the most? What is the biggest issue? The man who did it to you or the transwoman at your refuge?

This was the question. I find it hard to imagine a rape victim posing this question. As a victim, I responded.

That's good though. I also hope that differing attitudes towards gender and what it is and whether it is 'essential' and women and their social roles as well as places vis a vis men are also acknowledged.

I think this is understood very clearly by all the participants.

The key thing to understand is how US legislating works. At the moment, there is a Republican executive (Trump is president but doesn't pass laws) and a Democrat majority in the legislature (which does pass laws).

Because the legislature is separate to the executive, there is a lot less whipping in US law-making. It's quite rare for individual MPs to defy the party whip here in the UK but much less so in the US.

So, when contentious laws are passing through the legislature, it's much more important to lobby individual members because there's a reasonable chance of them going against the party hierarchy and voting is more independent generally. You see this in shows like House of Cards, when they're all rushing about lobbying individual lawmakers, regardless of party, to get a majority.

So this is bread-and-butter politics for the US: people from both Republican and Democrat parties want to see this Equality Act bill fail, for different reasons. But they will only succeed in getting it to fail if they pool efforts. If they succeed, they'll just go their separate ways and lobby against each other on different bills.

YetAnotherSpartacus

You forgot the rest. I don’t care if she finds other women saying self ID is the biggest issue, offensive.

Care to respond to any of my posts on my rape? Only I find your ignoring of it and taking my replies out of context, rude dismissive and incredibly uncool.

*One question which really needs an answer is this. Why is the left so on-board with trans ideology? Why are the left embracing what is undoubtedly a misogynistic and homophobic movement and portraying concerned women as bigots?

Can one of the people who is so against what Posie is doing answer those questions? Gender ideology is regressive. Why has the left embraced it so completely*

My preference is to try and make alliances with those bits of the left who have not swallowed dogma, including some gay men.

Having said that, I don't think the left are intrinsically on the side of women. However, I KNOW that the right are not. On this issue, we (the right and us) appear to agree. Scratch the surface and they hate us as much as and if not more than the left - unless we are in good little Stepford roles doing their bidding. The ven diagram is useful here. The right want to make sure that gender essentialism is preserved because they want to make sure that patriarchy is preserved.

One question which really needs an answer is this. Why is the left so on-board with trans ideology? Why are the left embracing what is undoubtedly a misogynistic and homophobic movement and portraying concerned women as bigots?

Its cross party and the lobbying has been going on for a long time.

The left-right religious-not religious binaries are a bit of a distraction as transgenderism has always been driven by men (who benefit) whilst risking greatest harm to women and children.

Its as always about power and the abuse of power.

see thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3463920-Lets-go-back-to-2007

AngryAttackKittens Thu 03-Jan-19 13:49:05
I'm going to point every "but the nice, harmless old school transsexuals whose movement has been unfairly appropriated by the nasty transgender people" person to this thread from now on.

All the same elements we're seeing now were there in that old BBC roundtable from the 70s with the 4 transwomen, the politician, and the doctor. None of this is new.

Care to respond to any of my posts on my rape? Only I find your ignoring of it and taking my replies out of context, rude dismissive and incredibly uncool

Rape is terrible. You spoke of gang rape (?) Every spoke of assault and other crimes and forms of discrimination and oppression. Everything both of you spoke of is awful. One of you thinks that trans is the overriding issue (you), the other does not (Every). This is the central debate and whether one of you experienced more or less harm than the other should not dictate the outcome of this debate.

Can one of the people who is so against what Posie is doing answer those questions?

I don't think it's as simple as left and right. There are organisations across the entire political spectrum with which I wouldn't associate and the Heritage Association is one of them. Other people draw their lines in different places and that is their right.

Its cross party and the lobbying has been going on for a long time.

Yes, I'm aware of that, but what I can't understand is why people are swallowing the trans ideology. Why can't more people see through it, and how regressive it is to have an idea that 'living as a woman' is somehow different from 'living as a man'.

Living as a woman = living as a human with a female body. Anything else is stereotypes. Why are so many on the left keen to embrace those stereotypes? Why can't they see the hypocrisy in saying they are progressive whilst supporting regressive stereotypes?

YetAnotherSpartacus

I responded to a question Early asked of rape victims, which I thought was sick and disgusting. We aren’t talking about an outcome to this debate. We are talking about a completely inappropriate, disgusting and insensitive question being asked of rape victims, as if a male body in their refuge shouldn’t concern us or be a priority. You might be able to ignore such a comment, but I will not. That they responded without even acknowledging my story, just shows the concern to be disingenuous. Totally.

So this is bread-and-butter politics for the US: people from both Republican and Democrat parties want to see this Equality Act bill fail, for different reasons. But they will only succeed in getting it to fail if they pool efforts. If they succeed, they'll just go their separate ways and lobby against each other on different bills.

Yes - but I'm not sure how that helps GC feminists politically in the UK.

I responded to a question Early asked of rape victims, which I thought was sick and disgusting

Can you post the time it was made? I'm not sure what you are referring to.

My preference is to try and make alliances with those bits of the left who have not swallowed dogma, including some gay men.

I agree with this, and it seems that some gay men are waking up to what is going on. But will that be enough to overturn the bizarre mindset that seems to have taken over which says that people can change sex and people who point out the truth are bigots? And that conforming (or not) to regressive gender stereotypes should carry more weight than biological reality.

I copied it above at 12.01.

I’m not contributing here anymore.

For info on what has been going on, and constructive discussion:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3490776-Women-Stand-Up-in-Washington-D-C

Yes - but I'm not sure how that helps GC feminists politically in the UK

Indeed. Political alliances are a different kettle of fish here. Much less practical and pragmatic (and clearly temporary).

There are reasonable objections to fundamentalist genderism from outside feminism - child protection, free speech, others less savoury. UK GC feminists will have to navigate this and not all of them will come to the same position.

But will that be enough to overturn the bizarre mindset that seems to have taken over which says that people can change sex and people who point out the truth are bigots? And that conforming (or not) to regressive gender stereotypes should carry more weight than biological reality

I'm not sure - but then I am not sure how aligning with a right wing who think that people born with vaginas have 'x' traits and people born with penises have 'y' traits (the old fashioned view of essential gender where 'y' happens to mean power over 'x') is going to help either.

This was Oxy's statement. I think it was rude and dismissive

Not quite...i dont care about the abuse you've suffered though is it

I'm not sure why the continuous attempt to claim women are 'buddying up' or 'aligning with the right' should overshadow the actual speeches made in Washington.

Venice Allen's 'We Need To Talk' have run a number of events in the UK with a range of amazing speakers discussing the impact on women and children of transactivism and ideology

Their words (as always) are important and attempts to silence them (by whatever means should be noted)

Brie Jontry at WNTT - Washington DC

'We Need To Talk'

Kara Dansky at WNTT - Washington DC