Posie Parker in the USA

[lucydo]

I am aware that there already long threads on this, but would anyone mind just giving me the basic information about what so many people are objecting to? Is it just that she has attended an event run by a Right Wing organisation? Or is there more?
It just looks like a pile-on by left-wingers on my twitter feed.
In all events, it's a TRA dream - divide and rule.
Again, before anyone flames me, I know that there are 2 long threads on this, but I gave up the will to read them after people going on about breakfasts for post after post.

As a woman who has been gang raped, I’m sickened that question is even asked. I had, still have, many fears and immediately afterwards I wanted to be near NO MALES. I still do not want males in places where I’ll be vulnerable. I don’t list my fears in order ffs.

Oxytocindeficient I can't understand how any woman or person with empathy could not acknowledge your post.

I will never understand how someone could continue to argue against you without stopping for a secong to acknowledge your experiences and I hope never to.

This is Mumsnet FFS

The idea that ‘being unable to identify woman’ will lead to an erasure of rights and policies that only effect woman such as breastfeeding, periods, abortions etc is what I meant by straw man.

I doubt that it will ever be impossible to identify people who are biologically female.

The problem is the eradication of language to refer to people who are biologically female. You cannot explain the structural impact of breastfeeding, pregnancy, access to birth control - of physically being female - if you have to pretend that there is no such thing as biological sex.

I haven't suddenly made up the idea that these things impact women. Actual laws restricting women's rights were enforced in the UK until 2 or 3 generations ago and women only really started to be able to participate in society on equal terms with men when they had access to birth control.

None of this has anything to do with identity.

The most you can say is that people suffer discrimination when their gender is observed to be female. That is an external not internal identification.

I think it's fine to criticise Posie Parker for associating with the Heritage Foundation - everyone has their own line and twitter has been full of GC feminists criticising her. However, using it as a 'gotcha' to undermine feminists fighting for women's rights would be like the Conservatives claiming that anti-semitism in the Labour Party justifies the Windrush scandal.

Typo...This kind..

Why can't we put this sniping aside and focus!

I don't always agree with Posy. I find her rude at times but I am so thankful she is doing what she is doing.

I saw that article and heard of an ambush! I clicked the link (slightly fearfully) and two slim womem, one really quite petite, asked questions in a slightly raised voice. How was that intimidating?

Some TV company has got to get them on with someone who can answer their questions!

R0wantrees

Thank you. At the time I was called a slut, by my friends, because as I was passed out from hitting my head, I couldn’t object or fight back. I was saved by a man. So I’m sadly quite hardened to the way other women behave around the issue of rape. I do so appreciate your response though.

oxy

made me think of that Manic Street Preachers' song If you tolerate this then your children will be next Yep. Who'd have thought then it would really, actually happen.

Why can't we put this sniping aside and focus!

Agreed, apologies for derailing but that really angered me. Women shouldn’t be asked to list their fears in order after rape.

Anyhow, there are other far better and more constructive threads on the activities in Washington, please join us there. I’ve been reading the article by Natasha Chart, it’s fantastic!

This thread is excellent:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3490776-Women-Stand-Up-in-Washington-D-C

YetAnotherSpartacus "I will always personally put women's ability to control their fertility as a major feminist issue. " then please do spare a thought for the large numbers of girls identifying as boys. Some will lose their wombs before they know of they want to reproduce.

Did you hear the stories at the start of the panel at the Heritage Foundation?

This is about more than women's spaces, it's also about female bodies and minds.

Thank you. At the time I was called a slut, by my friends, because as I was passed out from hitting my head, I couldn’t object or fight back. I was saved by a man. So I’m sadly quite hardened to the way other women behave around the issue of rape. I do so appreciate your response though.

Oxytocindeficien Its a massive problem, how people from both sexes deny the experiences and voices of those who have been sexually and violently abused.

In any space or situation, their voices must be heard and respected.

Oxytocindeficient you were not derailing and I didn't mean you.

I am so sorry for what happened. "At the time I was called a slut, by my friends.'

Again, womem (I assume?) attacking other womem when they could be supporting.

We have to acknowledge we are brought up with internalized misogyny.

Oh yeah and men and woman can breastfeed, so no more breastfeeding rights.

Very little accommodation is made for breast feeding women now. Women face discrimination because they might take maternity leave now.

Women face discrimination because of all the things that affect them over a life time. If you pretend that these are single issues, or that e.g. its somehow wrong to accept that most women will bear children and that this will impact their lives in a different way to men, you cannot argue for women's rights.

In any space or situation, their voices must be heard and respected.

This is the video from the 'We Need To Talk' meeting in Washington

www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=_twaEEStWUw

Watch the last 25 minutes if short of time to listen to the damage that is being done to young women, especially young lesbians.

This is when the 19 year old woman speaks:

"I thought about the 19-year-old woman who stood behind me on Sunday at the library, where we’d earlier heard from Lierre Keith, Meghan Murphy, Kara Dansky, and Brie Jontry. This young woman came to tell a room full of strangers that she had started transition about five years ago, had been on testosterone and already had a double mastectomy, only to realize that she was a lesbian, and a woman, and to wish someone had told her when she was younger that that was okay."
womensliberationfront.org/posie-parker-in-the-house/

Also responding to me saying of the abuse I’ve faced as a woman with ‘I don’t care’ is pretty rude actually. Something a man would say. I see you hun

Oh early

Thats an outright twisting of what happened

oxy

Im really sorry about what happened to you

And obviously early i dont want to hear of any women being abused so im sorry youve suffered as well

Yours is an essential derail for me oxy

I'm only chipping in here because for me, FWR is my main source of info for women's info. I don't have enough time or brain power to hunt out what to read elsewhere, I imagine it to be the same for many women. Most stuff comes together or is linked to, here on MN FWR.

I find it hard to keep up with what is happening, and especially when there are attacks and denouncements, so come her to try to find out what is going on. The last few days have been extraordinary. If only it weren't about something so serious.

I think it is still somewhat early days. We shall get all this set-up, falling for it, shite out the way, wake up, learn from it and carry on stronger. We women have to be more psychologically and politically street smart.

What's that quote about women thinking we are playing as one of the teams, but in fact we are the ball. Never has that been more true I think.

YetAnotherSpartacus "I will always personally put women's ability to control their fertility as a major feminist issue. " then please do spare a thought for the large numbers of girls identifying as boys. Some will lose their wombs before they know of they want to reproduce

You know well enough that I do this because you have been here for at least the same length of time as I have and using the same name. Perhaps what we need to think about are the reasons why so many girls (many of whom are lesbian, so it seems) identify as boys and perhaps we need to consider where homophobia and gender fundamentalism comes from - and came from even before the trans genderists - one of the major places it comes from is the conservative Christian right (at least in the US which is the subject of this thread).

I missed this. I've been away dealing with something significant in my personal life. Can you show me where this has been clearly stated?

I watched the Heritage Foundation panel video and both the host (Ryan Anderson, somebody most of us here would regard as a foe, quite rightly) and two of the panellists made it very clear that they were coming together for this one single issue and that they would continue to oppose one another on almost everything else.

As I understand it, this is how US legislative politics works. There's no cabinet style government, the legislature is separate from the executive, and no whipping of legislators as there is here.

I think it's just power struggles within GC activism

Thanks Lang that makes sense.
Now I think about it, the lefty/journo/academic GC feminists are full of praise and support whenever one of them does anything on tv/radio e.g. when Helen Lewis and Rosa Freedman were on Women's Hour a few months ago. And rightly so - they were very good. But did they have anything to say when Posie took Harrop apart on live TV? I'm happy to be corrected but I don't recall a single word.

Posie doesn't half rattle cages. She's not part of any club and I guess some people don't like that.

Just realised what Early has been demanding of Oxy.

Shame on you, Early. I will never see your posting in here as in good faith again. Never.

Sorry what was I demanding of oxy?

The irony that you can say I ignored a post on abuse, when my own post on my abuse was ignored by those same people, and originally only responded to with ‘I don’t care’

Can’t take this place seriously anymore.

Disregard all woman except the ones that think exactly as you do.

I’m out, bye.

I have no idea what my ‘biggest fear’ was at the time. Nor when I got screamed at and threatened with police by my head master for telling that our teacher was molesting us in class at 11. All I could think post-rape was, I didn’t consent to this. I got told what happened, all kinds of sick shit FYI, and I had injuries I didn’t know how I got... I had no support from any friend, female or otherwise... and all I could think was, but I didn’t consent so why am I a slut? What the hell happened? Who did this? ( one of them years later got invited into my flat by my friend who knew all about it, my sister dragged him out )

So when spaces I think are sacred to women are being invaded, without my consent, again, I do go back to that scared girl and think... why are men getting to do this to me again?

I certainly don’t stop and list what I fear the most and think, oh dear no this isn’t number 1 so I best just pull back a bit incase I lose my feminist membership. Not taking no for an answer or not even asking, is a fucking big deal to me.

when my own post on my abuse was ignored by those same people, and originally only responded to with ‘I don’t care

I think it might have been here? Oxytocindeficient Fri 01-Feb-19 10:56:23