Telegraph article 'NHS trans row as men get access to women's wards if they identify as female'

[R0wantrees]

(extract)

"Hospitals routinely allow male patients to share female wards if they self-identify as women, an investigation by The Telegraph has found.

Despite official guidance intended to eliminate mixed sex wards, none of the NHS trusts in England require a patient to have begun transition for them to be treated as their preferred sex, according to responses to more than 100 Freedom of Information requests.

One trust even advises staff to consult with the transgender patient if a female victim of sexual assault objects to sharing facilities with someone who may be biologically and legally male.

The NHS is unable to track how many transgender people are accommodated on wards for the opposite sex because data systems record them as their “preferred” sex.

The Department of Health’s “elimination of mixed sex wards” guidance upon which individual trusts must base their policies says that “men and women should not have to share sleeping accommodation or toilet/bathroom facilities”. But the document adds, “except where it is in the overall best interests of the patient or reflects their patient choice”.

As a result, a physically intact male has the right to choose to be treated on a ward for women that is simultaneously declared to be single sex." (continues)

The Telegraph has been contacted by a nurse at a city hospital with a report of a patient identifying as a transgender woman who appeared to become sexually aroused on a female ward, causing distress to a group of elderly patients.

The incident raises concerns about the lack of “equality impact assessments” (EIAs) that should be undertaken by law to determine the effect on all groups that may be affected by transgender policy changes. EIAs seen by The Telegraph appear to have taken into account the impact only on transgender patients rather than on others who should also be considered because of their sex, age or religion." (continues)

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/10/nhs-trans-row-men-get-access-womens-wards-identify-female/

This will have serious implications now it is becoming public knowledge.
see important article by Anne Harper-Wright & thread:

October 2018 'Sex, Gender & the NHS
Part 1: The “Single-Sex Hospital Wards” that have always been a lie'

medium.com/@anneharperwright/sex-gender-the-nhs-1e8f4e6363a6

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3396859-Weve-been-lied-to-about-Single-SEX-wards-since-2010

Re different treatment for sexual assault survivors, I would suffer in (terrified) silence and discharge myself as soon as humanly possible rather than out myself. I imagine that's not uncommon.

Is the telegraph the newspaper which has the oldest readers? The demographic most likely to have a stay in hospital. Good move if so.

Its not recommended that survivors out themselves, as there are predators that specifically target survivors. Also, if you get a negative response it can set back your recovery.

Can someone tweet this to Julia Hartley Brewer? I’m not on Twitter.

I have checked our policies at work. Christ some of the patient leaflets say stonewall on the back of them.

The sad fact is that statistically, a good proportion of women are sexual abuse/assault survivors. The NHS of all organisations should be aware of this and take our needs and intrinsically take our needs into account, not have to be pulled up on it on an individual basis and even then prioritise someone else’s needs.

This needs to be in AIBU women need to be aware of this. It is bloody terrifying, especially given the staffing levels on some wards at night.

So much wrong with this. Its not as if we hadnt been highlighting the issues for the past god knows how long. OP could you ask for this to be put in aibu please?

Name change btw.

A good portion of women are sexual abuse assault/survivors
Victims of the ongoing war of attrition against women and girls, and here we have the TRA's coming in with a new tactic

Is this not a deprivation of liberty to the women in the ward? DoLs

www.scie.org.uk/mca/dols/supreme-court-judgment/explaining-the-2014-changes

This is wrong on many levels. I took a look at the guidelines for Colchester hospital here.

As things stand, legally, the only trans people who should be housed in wards matching their gender identity are those who have a GRC. The document makes no mention at all of EA provisions for sex-based segregation - in other words, no mention of the view of other patients on single sexed wards, for example what happens if someone objects to the presence of a male bodied person on a women's ward. Sex-based protections are entirely absent.

This seems like the archetypal example of a place where sex should override gender indentity. It seems like self id, which has no standing in law, is being gold plated into this provision.

What I particularly object to is that this is all being done by stealth, with the typical conflation of sex and gender, with the possible end result that sex will no longer be recognised as a protected characteristic.
With the exception of the entirely unhelpful and unecessary references to manbrain and ladybrain, which will mean it's dismissed by many people, this brilliant article explains how NHS systems and guidance are set up to recognise the overriding importance of sex in screening and treatment, but that they have not been implemented. The irony is, the people who will be most at risk: those people whose gender identity does not match their sex.

This needs to go through the courts, sadly. Those affected women all need to sue.
It'll be the only way to get the NHS to listen.

As things stand, legally, the only trans people who should be housed in wards matching their gender identity are those who have a GRC

I'm not even sure this is neccesarily the case.
Even with a GRC, there are some situations when a male who has legally changed sex can be excluded.
One would think these would most likely be some female wards (eg MH), women's prisons, refuges etc

It is more likely intended that people with a GRC should not be forced to share facilities eg wards, showers etc with people of their birth sex which they have legally transitioned from

So for example in hospital this would mean providing a side room.

Most Hosptial trusts have their policies available online.

If you are interested you need to look for two parts:
The Single Sex Accommodation policy & the Transgender Policy.

Sometimes its possible to see when policies have been changed.

being discussed on Jeremy Vine now.

Karen White already been brought up.

Even with a GRC, there are some situations when a male who has legally changed sex can be excluded.
One would think these would most likely be some female wards (eg MH), women's prisons, refuges etc

Absolutely, but at least it has some legal standing to balance the rights of people with a GRC with sex-based protections. With the case of self-id, there is nothing in law at all, and yes, there needs to be a court case.

Anyone fancy calling in?

Joani Walsh
‏*@joaniwalshi*
More Joani Walsh Retweeted CoupsRelative
Can everyone call in? Will be interesting to track who they allow through. Interesting also they haven’t asked me to talk about it. Awkward considering he’s recently blocked me.

From the Mail's article:

‘If you aren’t even considering other groups in your equality impact assessments, your policy cannot be lawful,’ said Amanda Jones, a barrister at Great James Street Chambers in London.

The NHS’s interpretation of laws about the rights of transgender patients is ‘a mess’, she added."

Sounds like we need a legal challenge.

Oh fgs they should be given a side room on the male ward to accommodate their gender choice. Otherwise be honest and call them mixed sex.

This worry’s me.

Last year I was in EAU, which is mixed. I’d been unconscious for 24 hours and when I woke up I had no idea where I was. I was also very psychotic, hallucinating, distressed and scared. I was wearing one of those backless gowns and in my confusion I kept trying to climb out of bed and pull out my catheter. The curtains were open and I was visible to the entire ward plus anyone passing through. I was completely off the planet at the time and I had no idea what was going on, let alone any awareness of how on display I was.

I’ve also been on a psychiatric ward. All the other patients were female thankfully but the creepy male staff, and some of them were very creepy, were bad enough. When I was on level 3 there was a member of staff (almost always male) sitting outside my room with the door wide open at all times. There was no dignity whatsoever. Also there were slats in the door which the staff could open and look through at any time, without warning. It did not improve my mental health at all. I was probably worse, and far more traumatised when I was discharged.

Then late last year I had to go inpatient for a couple of days for surgery. I stressed to the nurse at the pre-op that I wanted to be in a single sex bay as previous experiences both in and out of hospital had made me scared to share a ward with males. Fortunately I didn’t encounter any males on that occasion, and thank god too. I was in a pretty vulnerable state and staggering back and forth to the toilet in a hospital gown, still dozy after an anaesthetic.

To think my feelings aren’t even considered, and it was just a fluke that the ward was single sex on those days makes me never want to go in hospital again, and considering sometimes it’s unavoidable, or I won’t have a choice to be admitted or not is disturbing. It’s bad enough to have male staff that you’re locked in with by the state, but to wake up after surgery or an illness next to another male patient, who isn’t just doing their job, hasn’t been DBS checked, and possibly has his body on display as well... well I don’t really want to think about it tbh. This is not fucking on. Females have as much right to dignity, privacy and safety as males, however they identify. We’re 51% of the population, and every one of them came out of one of us. It’s a fucking disgrace.

Sorry that happened to you, Badstyley.

Badstyly
The value of single sex wards is recognised by politicians.
NHS is so important to voters.
Its a key performance target, so breaches have to be recorded.

Gender self-id wards isn't a defensible position for any politician, health secretary or government to take.

What has been happening has gone on behind the scenes.
Now its coming out into the open and people can stand up.

This needs to be challenged and changed for all of the reasons you've spoken of.

Women and girls do matter. Their safety, privacy and dignity needs protecting.

2017 Guardian article Catherine Bennett:
'Mixed-sex wards endanger and humiliate women
Even as gender-neutral spaces grow, hospitals show that in some areas men and women are best kept apart'
(extract)
The unacceptability of mixed-sex wards has been a cherished theme for every opposition since Tony Blair alighted, in 1996, on what is still, universally, agreed to be a valid cause of public upset.

Mixed wards, he said “cause indignity, upset people”. Subsequent studies, including a 2008 examination of nurse and patient perspectives, confirmed he had not exaggerated. There were patients, it confirmed, of both sexes and of varied ages, who “experienced a lack of privacy, worried about bodily exposure and felt uncomfortable”. Nurses entirely sympathised. “Mixed-sex accommodation,” it concluded, “is an unacceptable solution to bed shortages.”

Moreover, investigations showed, objections go far beyond the allegedly trivial ones, according to more disinhibited patients, of commodes, Carry On! gowns, proximity to men who might resemble, to pick one or two names at random, the Pimlico Plumber and twat-detector Charlie Mullins or the BBC star and famed beauty connoisseur, John Inverdale.

Patients and their relatives attested to intrusion, exhibitionism and leering from nearby beds, even with staff around. In 2009, Channel 4 discovered that almost two-thirds of sexual assaults by patients in hospitals (21 out of 33 in 2007/8), occurred in mixed-sex wards. Variations on Blair’s question to an evasive John Major – “Is it beyond the collective wit of the government and the health administrators to deal with that problem?” – was a reliable line in opposition outrage until Jeremy Hunt declared in 2014 that this indignity was “nearly”, or “virtually”, history.

Regulations introduced by the coalition government in 2010 compelled hospital trusts to report their figures for mixed-ward occupation, then fined them £250 per night for breaches. “We want to see the end of mixed-sex wards,” Nick Clegg said. “Everybody knows this has got to end.” As recently as his 2015 conference speech, a key part of Hunt’s claims to representing “the party of the NHS” was the unqualified triumph: “mixed sex wards eliminated”. The mysterious disappearance of mixed-sex elimination from the recent Tory manifesto, plus its own virtual elimination from the J Hunt repertoire, has in turn revived opposition testimonials to the distress underlying the statistics.

Norman Lamb, the Lib Dems’ health spokesman, described soaring mixed-sex breaches, as hospitals come under more pressure, as “an utter scandal and an affront to basic human dignity”.

If this trend continues, thousands more patients may, when parliament resumes, have occupied a bed a few feet from a stranger of the opposite sex, an arrangement explicitly deplored in the NHS constitution. It “commits” to patients “that if you are admitted to hospital, you will not have to share sleeping accommodation with patients of the opposite sex, except where appropriate”. As for providers, they are expected, according to the NHS handbook, “to eliminate mixed-sex accommodation except where it is in the best overall interest of the patient involved or respects their personal choice”. (continues)

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/30/mixed-sexed-wards-endanger-and-humiliate-women