Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Open Letter to The IOC regarding transwoman Tiffany Abreu

208 replies

happydappy2 · 13/12/2018 13:14

Tiffany was born male and competed as a man, then transitioned to a woman and is now taking the place of a woman on the womans volleyball team. (& is doing very well-they are after all 6 foot 3") A very courageous lady Ana Paula Henkel has written an open letter to the IOC outlining her concerns prior to the 2020 Olympics in Tokyo.
A brave lady indeed. Needs to be talked about though.

OP posts:
charlestonchaplin · 13/12/2018 13:57

www.womensviewsonnews.org/2018/03/letter-in-defence-of-professional-womens-sports/

Ana Paula Henkel is a 4 times Olympian and Bronze medal winner in volleyball (Brazil). Hope the link works.

stealthsquirrelnutkin · 13/12/2018 14:06

Is it fair, to simply pretend away these undeniable biological differences in the name of a political ideology which will serve to restrict a space so hard won by women who struggled for it for so many centuries? How to accept “biological” men in fighting competitions, pitilessly hitting women, and then gaining acclaim, medals and money for it? Have we all gone so crazy as to permit such degradation?

How brave of her to stand up and speak out when so many others are keeping their heads down and hoping it won't effect them or anyone they care about.

I hope that hundreds of other women athletes who have been thinking the same things now dare to stand against this insanity. If enough of them join together they could stem the tide.

Mumfun · 13/12/2018 14:17

Sorry to be personal but I just get so pissed off when Clare Balding says nothing. Hugely intelligent, background steeped in sport, major sports presenter, lesbian etc etc. But nothing .

Brave Anna Paula and hope lots of others back her.

charlestonchaplin · 13/12/2018 14:22

fairplayforwomen.com/ana_paula_henkel/

happydappy2 · 13/12/2018 14:24

I also wonder what Seb Coe thinks of this....would be wonderful if Clare could speak out as she is well loved with all her presenting work.

OP posts:
BitterAndOnlySlightlyTwisted · 13/12/2018 14:26

I don't blame any woman in the public eye, lesbian or hetero for keeping her head down. It's potentially dangerous not to. I speak up because I have nothing to lose

Mumfun · 13/12/2018 14:33

Bitter I dont blame them. But am just pissed off by the whole situation. I would love Colin Moynihan Baron Moynihan to speak out again. He said a lot of really important stuff during the first GRA debate. But I guess it isnt just worth it for anyone. Only the very brave and as you say people with nothing to lose do so.

ChristmasWrappingTheWaitresses · 13/12/2018 15:21

This is a great letter what a brave woman. I hope it makes other people think.

feministfairy · 13/12/2018 16:07

That's a brilliant letter.
I don't blame any sportswoman for not speaking out - including Clare Baldwin. The trans aggressors are just waiting on the sidelines to trash reputations with their normal vile threats and gaslighting.

irnbruforlife · 13/12/2018 16:12

Was this letter written in March 2018? It is very well written and I agree with every word of it. I dont understand how anyone couldnt.

UpstartCrow · 13/12/2018 16:13

Its frightening how fast that has been normalised.

VickyEadie · 13/12/2018 16:34

I find myself boiling with anger on a daily basis about the sport issue alone.

HOW can the IOC set the T level (which they only have to show for one year to be able to compete) at such a high level and think that's fair? Of course, the fact that being born male confers a physical advantage which lowering testosterone never obliterates (it doesn't even bring the advantage down close) is thus entirely ignored.

Theswaggyotter · 13/12/2018 16:46

Fantastic letter and completely makes sense on every point. I hope she gets an adequate answer, or it makes people think more rationally about these issues. Eg why is the net lower in women’s game compared to men’s. Look at the height of the transwoman - it’s clear what advantage their height, strength etc brings
I’d love to see this letter picked up by bigger media outlets

Ereshkigal · 13/12/2018 19:33

Brava, Ana Thanks

QuietContraryMary · 13/12/2018 19:52

Abreu is a big fat cheat. Completely third rate as a bloke, now Olympic contender. Fuck off with that.

FWRLurker · 13/12/2018 20:35

"which they only have to show for one year to be able to compete"

Yes it is fucking ridiculous. My husband was on E and T blockers for a total of 2 years. By the time he desisted he could still EASILY physically overpower me, Like without even trying at all. And he's a completely average guy.

But Ask anyone in the TransWidows thread the same. Or anyone who has been intimate with a transwoman. It's not all about the hormones.

(note - don't report as his pronouns both are and were always male)

Voice0fReason · 13/12/2018 22:14

This makes me so cross and I really cannot understand why people aren't speaking out. This is the easy one to speak out on!
It is blatantly unfair. Men should NEVER be allowed to compete against women in segregated sports.

Iused2BanOptimist · 13/12/2018 23:04

"It represses, embarrasses, humiliates and excludes women.
We currently look on as sporting entities blind themselves to human biology, in an attempt to hoodwink science in the name of politico-ideological agendas. We currently look on a moral perversion against women and the complicity of sport authorities around the world in a supreme form of misogyny."

In a nutshell.
Has anyone forwarded this letter to those researchers at Loughborough university?

Awayfromitall · 13/12/2018 23:09

Yes, yes, and yes. Not into sport but this is just unfair. Period.

madeyemoodysmum · 13/12/2018 23:13

Amazing letter. Needs to be shared on social media No one I know in real life knows any of this. That’s the scary part.

DadJoke · 14/12/2018 10:54

Thus it starts. I don't think it will really hit public consciousness until a major track event such as the 100m is completely dominated by a late transitioning transwomen. It make absolute sense for those who pick teams to pick the best people for their squads, so why wouldn't you pick a 6' 3" volley ball player who is better than anyone else? They are just following the IOC rules.

While transwomen are rare, it's very likely that because of this they will be selected for the Olympics in disproportionate numbers. And if someone high up the mens' rankings transitions, which is bound to happen, they will utterly dominate their sport.

It's clear the testesterone measurement does nothing to deal with this issue. It's possible there are other things that could be done - but I really can't work out what they are. What possible tests or restrictions would provide a level playing field under these circumstances?

Juells · 14/12/2018 11:31

Ugh. Just followed a mention in the comments about a NZ trans cyclist and came across this
www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12002309
"Weatherly noted that she hadn't won every race since making the switch - finishing second to Rawson at an event in Canterbury earlier in the month.

"There's that whole conversation of fairness in the sport, but I've been beaten by other chicks in the sport. It's not like I'm winning every race.""

Other chicks! Competed as a man until December, then as a woman in January. New Zealand seems to have hit on a cunning plan for winning internationally - remember the weigh-lifter?

Mumfun · 14/12/2018 11:34

Yes I think the US will start to field loads of transwomen. Its not as if they have to made any medical changes. And then the US may come to dominate the whole of womens sport. It will be like the East Germans all over again.

VickyEadie · 14/12/2018 11:36

What possible tests or restrictions would provide a level playing field under these circumstances?

Not letting men compete with women is the only restriction which is fair. It's why we separate men and women in sport in the first place.

MrsTerryPratcett · 14/12/2018 14:45

Just the height. It confers massive advantage and lowering T doesn't shrink people to average female height.

Women's height is far more 'clustered' than men's. Around 5 5/5 6. Men's is more varied and men are routinely over 6 2. It's quite rare for a woman to be over 6 2.