DD made to feel uncomfortable in the ladies

[HairyPotter]

So she’s 20 and one of the societies she is a member of also has a trans woman as a member. Although it is affiliated with her university, it is open to anyone with an interest and this person is in their 40’s.

She needed to get changed at an event and went into the ladies to find this person already there. A moment or two later another trans woman came into the loo looking for the first one.

They didn’t do anything but dd felt really uneasy and vulnerable with two male bodied people in her female space. She feels unable to say anything as when she took some woman’s place flyers into uni, someone posted them all over twitter demanding to know ‘what shitty fucking terf’ put these up in ‘her’ uni!

For full disclosure, the trans woman in question attended an event a couple of months ago (where they probably were not expecting to see anyone they knew) but was dressed as a man.

There’s literally nothing dd can do is there? She says she can’t tell anyone how uncomfortable she feels for fear of being attacked.

The teenage girls who commented on absolutely-male Eddie Izzard using a women's loo: should they have just kept quiet and left? I seem to remember he accused them of bullying.

I take it Scott hasn't heard of Jonathon Yaniv.

ScottCheggJnr

What is it about the word NO that is so hard for you to understand? We don't need a reason in the slightest. NO is more than enough. Be told.

Well, I'd be surprised if many men went through gender reassignment surgery just to have a quick perve.

Who are you referring to here, Scott? It's clearly not the person in the OP, since: the trans woman in question attended an event a couple of months ago (where they probably were not expecting to see anyone they knew) but was dressed as a man.

Are you aware of just how few 'transwomen' get GRS, or even want to?

@NameChangeToAvoidBeingFound You cannot/should not use disabled toilets unless you're disabled

It's not enough unless you can conclusively demonstrate that it's the majority of women who feel this way.

No. It is the majority. But it doesn't have to be. Consent is about the right to say no to the violation of your boundaries. Other women can't give my consent for me.

Did you know that single stall bathrooms in California are required to be open to either sex?

That's the entirety of state law on gender neutral bathrooms, and the current push is for more single stall bathrooms.

In a land where referendums rule, no one has been able to gather enough signatures to "use the bathroom they identify with" for the voters to even consider.

Just thought I'd throw in a flash of sanity.

t's not enough unless you can conclusively demonstrate that it's the majority of women who feel this way.

Actually it’s the other way around. If you want such a drastic change it’s you who needs to bring the evidence and persuade people.

Consent is about the right to say no to the violation of your boundaries. Other women can't give my consent for me.

Exactly.

Why do we even have to point that out? Should be obvious.

Two points. 1. Bullying? Women asserting a boundary and saying nois not bullying.where is the bullying you see here? What is the reprehensible behaviour?

2. If it’s burly men that are the issue then this is a Male violence problem. Take it to the men.

I'm guessing you haven't read the rest of the thread?

I'm talking about the below comments and the (now deleted by mumsnet) suggestion to take photos of them in states of undress and post on social media.

Clearly bullying...

Or what if we bring a few big, burly men in with us and they stare down the intruders? (Esp in locker rooms) Or teams of fearless women to "monitor" the space.They need to feel more discomfort.

Or just chant "trigger trigger trigger trigger penis penis penis" Or something about male pattern violence or other feminist topics.

Materalist they can also provide them with a staggered schedule of who is allowed to use the shower at what time, and locks can be added to stall doors for privacy.

There's a lot in the new rules I'm not happy with, but the confidentiality rule for complaints goes both ways.

Where is the bullying, scott in a woman saying ‘no. I do not want to share this woman only space with a man’?

That was my question. Not what someone wrote and got deleted (MN deletes transphobic posts, so much for being a hotbed of hatred.)

My question was what is bullying about me saying I don’t want to share a changing room, refuge, loo or prison cell with a man?

And I will also ask: do you think humans can change sex?

I'm talking about the below comments and the (now deleted by mumsnet) suggestion to take photos of them in states of undress and post on social media.

The deleted comment that I remember was to take a photo of the 'transwoman' when they were out and about in their very male suit and tie (and without the wig). Since the comment has now been deleted, we probably won't find out if it's my memory that's faulty or yours.

Clearly bullying...

So you think it's bullying to make people who shouldn't be there feel uncomfortable? What about the discomfort of women who are in a women-only space, and that space is invaded by men. Are those men bullies? I say men, because a male bodied person who sometimes dresses as a woman and sometimes as a man, does not turn into a woman when he puts on a dress and a wig.

Some question scott

Can humans change sex? If yes, how? If no, great.
Assuming no... why do we have single sex spaces? Why do aid and development agencies stress the provision of single sex sanitary arrangements for example as a method of reducing sexual violence?
Answer: we have single sex spaces because as a class men are a danger to women (and of course for privacy and dignity for BOTH sexes.)

So. Humans can’t change sex.
Men are a danger to women as a class
Why then, are you advocating for men to be allowed into those spaces?

Can you explain why?

I say those men are bullies, OldCrone. Absolutely bullies, taking full advantage of their male privilege and greater physical strength to trample over women’s boundaries and let us know just who’s the boss.

I’d say much of transactivism is about male people bullying female people. With the power of the establishment behind them. In that respect it is most definitely the patriarchy pushing the idea of allowing “transwomen” in women’s changing rooms, in answer to that bloke’s question upthread.

Progressive, my arse.

The deleted comment that I remember was to take a photo of the 'transwoman' when they were out and about in their very male suit and tie (and without the wig). Since the comment has now been deleted, we probably won't find out if it's my memory that's faulty or yours.

You are remembering quite correctly.

What Materialist said. All of it.

Scott seems to believe transwoman must have surgery.

Scott is talking about Jan Morris. We're talking about Danielle Muscato and 'Pips' Bunce.

I think there's a middle ground between allowing any old bloke in and being sympathetic to genuine transsexuals who have demonstrated that they truly want to live 'as women'.

The latter have been going about their business for years with little issue from what I can see, but the recent climate seems to have seen them lumped into one big collective which usually focuses on the very worst examples.

the recent climate seems to have seen them lumped into one big collective which usually focuses on the very worst examples.

And you know who is to blame for that? Stonewall with their all-encompassing 'trans umbrella'.

Yeah, not disagreeing with you there!