Not sure I am on board with feminism any more.

[AWildThoughAppeared]

When I was first presented with feminism, I was sceptical. Then I saw the light, I was a convert. But recently I don't know what I think any more.

First of all let me say that I'm 100% opn board with women. But I'm deeply concerned about today;s feminism and its message.

This is the message that our young people are being repeatedly schools and media, about women:

A woman is a victim
A woman will be beleived
Femininity is precious
A woman is strong
A woman is empowered
A woman can be anytrhing she wants to be.

So far .... I'm 100% behind that; But lets look at the message our education programs and media messaging is telling to our children about men:

Men are violent
Men are abusers
Men are rapists
Men are not to be trusted
Masculinity is toxic
Men are dispensable
Men should stand aside

What young boy hearing this isn't going to be deeply confused. How are boys going to grow up as strong, responsible, confident and useful if we don't tell them that boys are amazing too.

Is it any wonder so many school age boys are wanting to transition to be girls. Of course they feel like a woman inside when they are constantly told that girls a kind and precious and strong and can do no wrong, and boys are evil, disgusting and worthless.

Where is the celebration of men? Responsible, loving, kind, strong men.

Maybe I'm getting it all wrong. Maybe I'm missing something.Tell me.

Dryice - " this idea that feminists must expand to prioritise men"

Feminists should prioritise women but need to think more about positive messages to boys to counterbalance the negative ones they are so good at spreading.

It does not help f you make bhoys ashamed and inhibited instead of learning to express their qualities in a full and healthy way.

I'll be happy when men don't present a negative image of men.
Stop harassing women. Stop killing women. Stop abusing women. Stop male privilege.

It's not up to feminism to make you look better when men as a whole don't treat women like equals.

Feminism aims to break down gender stereotypes for both boys and girls.

Us talking about male violence in feminist spaces isn't the overriding image that boys will be getting. They will be getting the boys are heroes, boys are tough, boys are sporty, boys are smart, men are leaders messages.

Men are vastly more represented on our screens and in our books. And not as violent perpetrators of violence against women.

I didn't read all replies, but yes, you have missed the point.

It's not an image problem.

It's just that men don't like to look at the mirror.

How about making men responsible for eachother's behaviour.
Call out on abusive behaviour.
Don't excuse men in power or your friends.

Then women won't need to complain.

CS12345 - "Do you think it's the role of black activists to fight for the rights of white people?"

No.

This is ridiculous. There was plenty of male violence before feminism. Men need to take responsibility for their own actions and stop blaming women for what they do. Young disenfranchised men are being violent for the same reasons they always have, not because they are suddenly seeing messages calling men out for their bad behavior.

I'm deeply concerned for men who think they're mistreated by feminists.

It tends to be men who don't respect women as equals and feel threatened.

Feminists should prioritise women but need to think more about positive messages to boys to counterbalance the negative ones they are so good at spreading.
I think that’s something men should be doing.
Why are women - and specifically feminists- expected to fix everything?

Feminists should prioritise women but need to think more about positive messages to boys to counterbalance the negative ones they are so good at spreading.

The negative message you seem to be blaming feminism for spreading, seems to be the statistical facts that men are disproportionately and overwhelmingly responsible for violence and assault, including on women. This has been the case for thousands of years, so I fail to see how feminists have caused it.

You really think boys struggle to find positive role models and stereotypes. Really?

And thus the topic degrades into a general slanging match with the same old points :(

"Perhaps being born a male IS something to be ashamed of. I haven't seen any message from feminism to the contrary."
You keep saying things like this. But you can't come up with any examples. Which is making discussion a bit tricky.

I don't see any slanging going on. Just people disagreeing with you.

Traditional male qualities such as ambition, competition, and standing up for yourself are shameful, to be suppressed.

Nope, just accepted that these qualities don’t just belong to males.

Not quite going your way?

You'll notice that your thread started with the same old points that threatened men have used for ages.
You'd think it's the first time we saw these complaints.

"It does not help f you make bhoys ashamed and inhibited instead of learning to express their qualities in a full and healthy way."
I agree. In what ways are boys being made to feel ashamed and inhibited?

Ok, so why then do you think it's the job of women to fight for the rights of men?

Lweji

It's not that it's not going my way. I wanted to be challended. The first few respionses were thoughful and made me thing. But now it's jiust the same old isn't it.

How did you want it to go?

In my experience, feminism is all about breaking down harmful gender stereotypes, for everybody.

I'm not sure where you got the impression it wasn't about that.

Male violence is a fact of life for us in the UK today, as it has been. We can't stop talking about that, because it is important that it is still highlighted as long as it carries on.

I don't know what schools in the UK are like today, but if you disagree with anything that is going on in your local schools, get involved. Become a governor, effect change.

CS12345 - Ok, so why then do you think it's the job of women to fight for the rights of men?

I don't. I'm saying they should think asbout the message they are sending to boys as they correctly fight for the rights of women.

OP-why aren't you engaging in the discussion? And can you say which posts you consider to be part of a "slanging match"?

It really doesn't help that you're trying to make it an issue of image and making feminists responsible for it.

It's not a slanging match. You're just being challenged and you don't much care for it cos your argument is built on sand and you can't defend it. It's so lame, when you can't back up your points with logic/facts/reason/sound judgement, to start crying that you're being picked on. Up your argument OP.

OP in the media the dominant message is violence against women by men.

You are absolutely correct in thinking that media needs to start writing stories which don’t involve violence against women.

Then naturally, men won’t be portrayed as aggressive.

However, men have a lot more decent role models than women.

You need to remember that feminism is a movement to counteract patriarchy. It is never going be about trying to support men too (although most want both, I don’t believe feminism is about that). In a post feminist society perhaps we will have a movement which changes societies portrayal of men, but first we need feminism to push it to the extreme and force the change. (In my opinion)

I am a feminist. I am raising two boys (and I now never will have a daughter) so I think about how my boys will grow up a lot.

As a feminist, I speak up for girls and women, support equal opportunities, call out sexist behaviour etc.

As a mother, I tell my boys they can be anything they want to be, give them a home where they know they're secure and loved, and WITH THEIR FATHER demonstrate what an equal partnership looks like.

I don't know if that's the right balance but that's how it seems to me. Act globally as a feminist, think locally as a parent, same principles for each. And the latter wouldn't work without DH so it really isn't just on me.