Not sure I am on board with feminism any more.

[AWildThoughAppeared]

When I was first presented with feminism, I was sceptical. Then I saw the light, I was a convert. But recently I don't know what I think any more.

First of all let me say that I'm 100% opn board with women. But I'm deeply concerned about today;s feminism and its message.

This is the message that our young people are being repeatedly schools and media, about women:

A woman is a victim
A woman will be beleived
Femininity is precious
A woman is strong
A woman is empowered
A woman can be anytrhing she wants to be.

So far .... I'm 100% behind that; But lets look at the message our education programs and media messaging is telling to our children about men:

Men are violent
Men are abusers
Men are rapists
Men are not to be trusted
Masculinity is toxic
Men are dispensable
Men should stand aside

What young boy hearing this isn't going to be deeply confused. How are boys going to grow up as strong, responsible, confident and useful if we don't tell them that boys are amazing too.

Is it any wonder so many school age boys are wanting to transition to be girls. Of course they feel like a woman inside when they are constantly told that girls a kind and precious and strong and can do no wrong, and boys are evil, disgusting and worthless.

Where is the celebration of men? Responsible, loving, kind, strong men.

Maybe I'm getting it all wrong. Maybe I'm missing something.Tell me.

kesstrel

I follow Michael Conroy and Jack Appleby on Twitter, and they are organising and talking about masculinity and how it could change. I think women and feminists absolutely have a stake in that project, and if some of us want to discuss it, why shouldn't we?

Hear, hear. Totally agree that many feminists should, and do, support men in their drives to moderate male behaviour.

I still don’t understand how feminists are wrong to centre their concerns around women and girls.

There's a thread in AIBU right now about a woman who's attempting to impose gender stereotypes on a group of 4 year old boys at a birthday party (boys aren't supposed to like painting, apparently, and must be made to play football instead). Note that distinct lack of "and she says that because she's a feminist" in this story.

If OP jumped into that thread it would probably be the bemoan how the mum who wants to make sure there's no footy since her son isn't interested is imposing evil feminist values and failing to properly celebrate boys.

AngryAttackKittens

Actually I think it's very interesting how the mum is trying to support her son in wanting a different party in the face of her friend belittling his choice and trying to force him to do football and then belittling the OPs ability to raise a son as a single parent because the friend's husband lacked male role models.

Also interesting are a minority of posters on the thread agreeing that the son will be laughed at for having a painting party.

It's interesting how many views on FWR express how if we did away with gender stereotypes then far fewer children would feel the need to transition and yet when people try to challenge stereotypes they face pressure from peers to conform.

I applaud that mum for sticking up for her son but I can see how some women would question themselves when challenged and give in to what others said was "normal".
That's why it's a feminist issue surely. Women are bringing up boys. We are at least 50% responsible for their world view.

If you have a son OP or are a man, some advice: learn how to treat women well. Gone are the days of James Bond type men who can choose women for their looks and then treat her bad when they get hold of her. If you have a son teach him love and kindness. Teach him how women carry and nurture children. Teach your son to nurture and care for children / others. Boys still get to be boys, and we can celebrate that, but they cannot treat girls like crap anymore. Women are challenging the status quo, which was set up by men - the whole patriarchal system. So it’s goid. It’s changing OP. Go with it.

Coming back into this after a breezy walk with my dad which was lovely.

While I can see the worth in discussing the broad point, I still don't really get the complaint. Those arguing for it on the thread are listing all the things feminists have campaigned for and employed in their parenting of boys for a long time now. So why is it being presented as a critique of feminism? If society is changing, and I think aspects of it are, the reason for that change is because feminists have been chipping away at the gender system for so long.

Oh, are you the OP under a different name, Weetabix? Because it was the OP who I mentioned.

Floral, the objections seem to be that a. feminists are focused mostly on girls, and b. this is bad and evil and means we want to hurt 6 year old boys.

AngryAttackKittens

Sorry. Didn't realise that only specific people were allowed to comment on posts.

Those arguing for it on the thread are listing all the things feminists have campaigned for and employed in their parenting of boys for a long time now. So why is it being presented as a critique of feminism?

If often seems that anti-feminists are arguing mostly with the imaginary feminists who live in their heads rather than any actual feminist who exists in non-them reality. I've seen multiple TRA comments about feminists wanting to force men to adhere to stereotypical masculinity. We should introduce them to the MRAs who think that we want to "emasculate" men.

And yet in the end they all agree that our job is to be men's servants.

“It's interesting how many views on FWR express how if we did away with gender stereotypes then far fewer children would feel the need to transition and yet when people try to challenge stereotypes they face pressure from peers to conform.“

They face pressure from their peers- but not from feminists. Being gender non conforming is feminism’s starting point.

100 % this

If often seems that anti-feminists are arguing mostly with the imaginary feminists who live in their heads rather than any actual feminist who exists in non-them reality.

And the great irony is that many feminists do support men's campaigns - such as men's health and mental health issues. It's just that the OP seems to have missed that from their argument.