How do SA and rape survivors cope in this climate?

[JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff]

When I gave birth last Feb, the staff wanted a load of people observing me inc men. I always knew I wouldn't cope well with that but when it came to it, he strength of my feeling surprised me. I couldn't go through it.

I was told last week that that same hospital now employs a transwoman ultrasonographer in the EPU who specialises in vaginal US. The person who told me was a local GP, speaking to me in a social context. He said some of his patients had been distressed by it.

It got me thinking - how do you/ would you cope as a survivor faced with that kind of thing? For me, loos aren't so much an issue but healthcare definitely is. But we all have our specific triggers.... what do we do if we cannot avoid them?

They can request one. The power dynamic is not the same as a woman feeling forced into accepting a Male HCP after trauma.

This is the equivalent of ‘but what about transmen in the men’s loos’ argument.

A well designed system protects the vulnerable - women like the ones above who are deeply traumatised.

We need to remember that the aim is to get women the treatment they’re entitled to in as professional a manner as possible with the very minimum of discomfort or trauma.

The aim is NOT, and never should be, validation of the HCP. Care is patient centred at all times.

Taking the OP at face value.

In all honesty I struggle with the lack of engagement on this board with posts about sexual assault / rape trials because right now only discussion about transgenderism seems to garner interest.

early consent is vital and more awareness of it can only be a good thing.

But just putting the onus on the woman to stand up and say no isn’t the most basic level of solving this.

I ask myself what kind of practice would send in a man where s woman was requested or a patient has a history or trauma? It’s all arse about tit - the most basic level to make it ok is not sending a man in the first place. Many women have poor understanding, poor or no English. They may be unaware, or scared, or unable to communicate their unhappiness.

Weetabixandshreddies the only woman that are allowed a voice are the ones that agree with them. It is most unfeminist to tell a rape survivior you don’t believe her, it’s also unfeminist to tell a group of rape survivors they have no ‘compassion’ because they’ve said their own personal rape didn’t affect them in a specific way.

Sort of reminds me of the way TRA behave tbh.

for every survivor here of sexual abuse. No matter how it affected you, your experiences and feelings are valid and you are not alone.

I am struggling to see the relevance of the rape survivor who isn't bothered by male bodied HCPs. If it is no problem for someone, it is no problem. My point in my second post to the thread was that there are many women who are abuse survivors for whom it is a problem, and it should be neon-sign-obvious that those are the women whose needs should take priority and be the basis of policy decisions.

This is nothing to do with people who aren't bothered either way, whatever their life experiences are. This is about protecting and helping those who are.

I've been in situations where I have felt hugely pressured simply from social anxiety, to consent to a male student, and it actually took me quite some years to realize that I was perfectly within my rights to say no, and that they wouldn't take it personally. If someone's need for personal validation as a woman is factored into that, it's just another level of stress and pressure, which is surely something to avoid?

And yes, I am really bloody angry that this even needs to be spelled out so I am fairly intemperate in my posting style this evening.

They can request one. The power dynamic is not the same as a woman feeling forced into accepting a Male HCP after trauma

Can I refer you back to a PP who said that she had been sexually abused by female family members? But according to you, her trauma isn't as real as though abused by men?

early consent is vital and more awareness of it can only be a good thing.

But just putting the onus on the woman to stand up and say no isn’t the most basic level of solving this.

I ask myself what kind of practice would send in a man where s woman was requested or a patient has a history or trauma? It’s all arse about tit - the most basic level to make it ok is not sending a man in the first place. Many women have poor understanding, poor or no English. They may be unaware, or scared, or unable to communicate their unhappiness.

I requested a female doctor for a gynae procedure and because the doctor I was booked to see was sick, I was confronted with a male doctor instead. I refused to be seen - and he was absolutely fine about it, it was the administrators who tutted at me for causing them extra work

Maybe we could move on from what was posted hours ago and listen to what posters are saying now? We cannot change what someone said on page 1 unless you want to report it.

I have had to infer to certain hcp about my past when I’ve been pregnant and they have always understood and been very supportive. However I would not like to be doing that every time I need a smear test for eg or to every hcp I have to deal with during a whole pregnancy. It was very distressing for me to have to tell people I didn’t know as I couldn’t know how they were going to react - what if they didn’t believe me or dismissed me or ignored me or got angry or upset because of their own experiences?

It’s a minefield and women should only need to go there sparingly and where there is a benefit to them. Having to tell the receptionist you’ve been raped so must have a female, xx, female-bodied woman to do your examination/ procedure would stop loads of women ever even getting the appointment in the first place.

Women have the right to request that only female-bodied people perform intimate exams.
Not only that, they should absolutely never be put in a sudden and unexpected position where their choice is to be intimately touched by a male-bodied person when they don't want to be, or say 'no' knowing that said male-bodied person might react badly.
I'm horrified that in 2018 this is even a debate.

I am struggling to see the relevance of the rape survivor who isn't bothered by male bodied HCPs

The relevance is that posters on here told her that they didn't believe that she was a rape survivor because she wasn't bothered by a male HCP. That is disgusting. I thought you always adopted a "I believe you" stance? So basically the only rape survivors deserving of support are the ones who react in an "acceptable" way?

Maybe we could move on from what was posted hours ago and listen to what posters are saying now? We cannot change what someone said on page 1 unless you want to report it.
You know what, we could move on from it if everyone on here called out the people who wrote that disgusting rubbish.

But no. If you're not the "right type" of woman you are treated badly by other people purporting to be feminists.

Weetabix, as you're discussing this with me, perhaps you'd be better off chiding me about things I have said rather than things someone else said.

Having to tell the receptionist you’ve been raped so must have a female,
You don’t need to give your reason for requesting a female.

My train of thought for an anti self ID campaign on this issue is what I’ve said - When booking in, or checking in during an emergency, if you request a female you should be informed if the available female doctor is transgender and given the option to decline so you can make an informed decision.

I think just keeping your counter campaign to every issue that may be there with trans people as simply ‘TWANW’ - no debate, just loses 90% of the population who will just class you as bigots from the get go.

Informed consent is what matters.

You know weet I went back and checked and loads of the initial posts were deleted so I don’t know what was said. In addition there were some very badly worded posts about ptsd etc. This thread did not start off well at all. I think the post you’re on about got lost a bit in that.

However, expecting everyone else on the thread to perform penance because of a poor start five hours ago is just silly. And getting in the way of what people want to talk about now. But I think you know that.

FloralBunting
Correct me if I am wrong but you are discussing what was said. You are questioning the relevance of a rape survivor expressing her preference as to the sex of her HCPs on a thread asking questions about choice of sex of HCPs.

So you are saying something about it.

And how many of you calked out the posters who said it? Interestingly those comments have been deleted and the people who said it are still commenting on here.

Honestly this has really shocked me. That women, purporting to be supporting the rights of women, would dare to tell someone that they don't believe that they were raped. And no one called them out on it.

It’s why I don’t post here very often tbh. But I am annoyed that my post was deleted for sharing my own experience. The question the Op asked was how a survivor can cope with that. I explained how I cope with that but because it doesn’t fit the usual script it was reported.

GoldenWonderwall

What was said to the poster was, you said that you've been raped but are ok with seeing a male HCP. I don't believe you were raped. Then someone else agreed. Yes those comments have been deleted.

The point of me raising it? Where were all of you then supporting that woman? Those who saw it and said nothing are just as guilty.

NotUmbongoUnchained

I believe you and I am sorry that you were treated like that.

It’s ok, it’s not the first time and won’t be the last!

I don’t have a campaign, please don’t put words in my mouth.

Either twaw or twanw. If twaw you cannot request a female hcp and guarantee you’ll get one because twaw. Saying hcp twaw unless you’re a rape survivor, in which case hcp twanw seems massively unfair to survivors and transwomen. Both of you now have to identify as something you probably don’t want to and there’s loads of upset there which could be avoided.

That women, purporting to be supporting the rights of women, would dare to tell someone that they don't believe that they were raped. And no one called them out on it.

I should imagine that's because MN has a zero tolerance policy on rape myths and requests that such posts are reported rather than 'called out' or prompt further engagement.

www.mumsnet.com/campaigns/we-believe-you-mumsnet-rape-awareness-campaign

The fact that the posts were deleted is probably an illustration of this policy in action.

If it’s been deleted before I read the thread how can I know what was said? How can anyone? Mn deleted it, what more can anyone do?

umbongo I didn't report your comment, but I am fairly sure that it wasn't deleted because you shared your experience, but because you implied that women who feel as I do are somehow irrational. You've rightly apologised for your choice of words, so that's done. However, you could repost the rest of the body of your post if you choose?