How do SA and rape survivors cope in this climate?

[JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff]

When I gave birth last Feb, the staff wanted a load of people observing me inc men. I always knew I wouldn't cope well with that but when it came to it, he strength of my feeling surprised me. I couldn't go through it.

I was told last week that that same hospital now employs a transwoman ultrasonographer in the EPU who specialises in vaginal US. The person who told me was a local GP, speaking to me in a social context. He said some of his patients had been distressed by it.

It got me thinking - how do you/ would you cope as a survivor faced with that kind of thing? For me, loos aren't so much an issue but healthcare definitely is. But we all have our specific triggers.... what do we do if we cannot avoid them?

Is it possible that these initiatives might include re-education for some women who are used to living within particular cultural structures? That some women will need this in order to participate in public life and go into public spaces and (indeed) private places in workspaces?

Good luck with explaining that to Imams, husbands, fathers, brothers in the average community of those faiths. I'd really like to see Madigan explain directly to them face to face that their faith and culture needs to be abandoned now to fit this one particular issue, but it won't happen. Much of the bullshit is in direct conflict with government policy, it's becoming as confused and contradictory as they've made the Equality Act. This is why twits like Moran won't even discuss it or acknowledge these women exist in this issue.

Those communities will go ape when the reality emerges. The politicos will not have a leg to stand on. And I'm afraid I plan to be there with the popcorn and a large sign saying 'we told you so. Patiently. For fucking years.'

Good luck with explaining that to Imams, husbands, fathers, brothers in the average community of those faiths.

In case it wasn't clear in my post, I was wondering about these matters in consideration of what people who design these initiatives might enforce as necessary - particularly if it's part of a compulsory upskilling/readiness for work initiative.

To be absolutely clear, I'd regard such education as an preparation for totalitarianism. And I can't think it is compatible with other characteristics that are currently protected by EqA 2010.

This is an issue for me because I was sexually assaulted by a male gynaecologist almost 9 years ago. I cope by not going to gynaecologists anymore. I hope I don't die as a result, but I might.

Grace Support to you.
I was abused by my male doctor. I talked to my new doctor about my fears and she said that there were no trans people at the surgery but if she sent me on anywhere else she could not guarantee that I wouldn't be faced with a biological male.
I now need to go to a hospital re a gynecological issue. I can't bring myself to make the appointment.

It seems surprising that of all the radiography/ sonography areas and specialisms one can go into, there is a trans woman who happens to specialise in vaginal ultrasound. Hmmm. I wonder how that works re having a chaperone when you’re alone with a male bodied health worker like in other scans.

I have ptsd from various horrors and I don’t like men rummaging round at all. I’ve tolerated it in surgery but my heart rate goes through the roof and I have no control over it. I’ve tried lots of things - however it’s an instinctual reaction to a perceived life threatening event, so I am not surprised I cannot rationalise my way out of it. I was raped by a hcp so I don’t know if that impacts on my distrust of hcps.

It isn’t the same as a male practitioner in many ways it’s worse

This is my gut reaction too.

I'm trying to understand why I feel that way, and I think it's because I would feel I wasn't 'allowed' object to them (because transphobia), whereas I would be 'allowed' to object to a man doing the procedure IYSWIM.

Because of my background of CSA it is very important for me to give my full consent, and to know if I say no it means no. Saying no to a MtF trans would get the immediate reaction of why not? rather than just accepting the no.

No has to mean no, without question, without ifs and buts, without having to justify my feelings.

Arrgh. My stomach is in a knot just thinking about being in that situation.

Saying I dont want to and being faced with oh go on it'll be ok or why are you being so silly or other people let me do it

Fuck.

I’ve been abused and having men carry out medical exams has never bothered me, I’ve always just thought of them as medical professionals trying to help Me. I do know some woman do though and I think it should be about informed consent.
So if you specifically ask for a woman, and they say ‘we have Dr. Smith available and she is a trans woman, would this be ok or would you like to wait for Dr. Chris’ etc..
This has got me thinking I didn’t see a single female consultant for my miscarriages or gynaecologist appointments. What happens in the event the hospital do not have one?

we have Dr. Smith available and she is a trans woman, would this be ok

This would be better, because it gives the opportunity to say yes or no. Trouble is that the whole TWAW thing means no one would ask first.

Materialist

I don't think people specifically train in TV ultrasound. It's part of training in eg diagnostic scanning so they would cover lots of body systems. I went for an abdominal scan but they couldn't get a clear image so swapped to TV. It was tge same sonographer that did both. They didn't have to call in a specialist.

Likewise I don't question the motives of male gynecologists. There isn't something dodgy about them.

I understand your reasons for wanting female HCP but it's wrong to question the decency of male HCPs.

I am not a survivor of male violence, but I absolutely do not want a male person giving me intimate care or smear tests or similar procedures.
The only man who has seen my nether regions in the last 40 years is DH and it is MY RIGHT to ask for and receive care from females in those circumstances. (Even if I have to wait a bit longer for one to be available)

Why is my right to bodily privacy and dignity less important than the right of a trans woman's feelings?

I don't think I am any more at risk from a trans woman than from any other man, statistics suggest they offend at the same rate.
Me saying "I would like to be seen by a woman" should be enough, I shouldn't have to be a survivor or victim.

The problem is that people who don’t have an issue are held up as an example to those of us for whom it is.

Not being the same person as who hurt me makes no difference whatsoever to me. If anyone is fortunate not to understand what I have experienced, they have no right to belittle me.

When I was pregnant with my son we regularly saw a male ultrasound technician and for my first scan a transvaginal ultrasound was required. He asked if I was comfortable with him doing the procedure. I’d hope the same would apply with the technician mentioned in the OP.

'If you care about the patients' wellbeing why become a specialist in that, for the love of all that is holy?

The obvious answer to that question is really upsetting, isn't it?'

My thoughts exactly. No fucking thank you. And I'm a woman who wouldn't object in principle to receiving gynaecological care from a male practitioner

Well yes, this is what irritates me. Every boundary is seen as a fresh frontier to breach.

Women as a whole say no. Obviously that should be enough, but for some people it's not. So we point out the specific women who would have a problem, like survivors of abuse, and this is seen as a problem to be overcome, rather than a firm red line.

So, I tell you of my abuse and the consequence of my distress around male bodied individuals in specific situations. Most people who trumpet that their big motivation is compassion wouldn't, in a million years, respond by bringing up women who have been abused and don't have a problem with male bodied people in those situations, because it's obviously a really shitty and tone deaf response.

It's stuff like this that has made women so very angry.

OP said this person specialises in TVU

I'm really not sure that is a specialist area though. As I said I think they are trained in many areas, this being one. Maybe the GP was engaging in a little hyperbole to illustrate his point.

Of course as a patient you have the right to refuse treatment by a HCP.

Most people who trumpet that their big motivation is compassion wouldn't, in a million years, respond by bringing up women who have been abused and don't have a problem with male bodied people in those situations, because it's obviously a really shitty and tone deaf response.

But the women on this thread saying they don't have a problem have been abused themselves. Surely their way of coping is just as valid to them as your way of coping is to you?

I had a poster telling me the other day that I shouldn't be upset about my disability because she'd watched a video about a severely injured soldier who was embracing his disability and using it to build a new future. Wtf? Fantastic for him. That is how he is choosing to deal with it. For me now, my way is to refuse to accept it because to accept it is to give in. That's me though. I wouldn't apply it to anyone else but nor should anyone else's way of coping be imposed on me.

You cope in one way and others cope in another.

Just because some women are ok with it, doesn't mean all women have to be.

Most people who trumpet that their big motivation is compassion wouldn't, in a million years, respond by bringing up women who have been abused and don't have a problem with male bodied people in those situations, because it's obviously a really shitty and tone deaf response

So not only are my experiences as a woman invalid according to FWR, my experience of being raped and sexually abused are too! Good to know it’s not jyet womaning I’m doing wrong.

I can no longer even drive past a place I was attacked, I don’t associate every Male with that man though. Everyone copes in their own way and no experience is More or less worthy of comment.

I also continued my sentence with ‘I know some woman do though’, for clarity.

I'm a SA survivor and had a man do a vaginal ultrasound a couple of years ago. I wasn't told it was going to be a man, I was in a foreign country, and I was quite shocked when he came in. I felt completely retraumatised at first, but I went along with it not quite knowing how to object. He was perfectly professional, but that doesn't change a thing, and it still feels traumatic thinking about it. If it was a transwoman it would be worse, because despite knowing that there are transwomen out there simply getting on with their lives, we keep seeing these cases of manipulative narcissists using their trans status as a way to 'punish' women and bully them into accepting them with threats of lawsuits if they don't. Such TRAs have done a massive disservice to those trans people.

If you don’t give a shit, you don’t give a shit. If you do give a shit or do give a shit about the women too afraid to say anything whilst they lie there feeling violated whilst worrying about their pregnancy then say so. There are loads of things I personally don’t give a shit about as a survivor of rape, some of which are mentioned as things people do give a shit about on this very thread - but who am I to say my not giving a shit is equal to the person who does? In these situations it’s the person who does give a shit who should be anticipated and respected, because if you don’t give a shit it doesn’t matter to you anyway. There’s probably one too many shits in there but hopefully the meaning is clear.