Genuine question - not goady, I promise, I am GC myself..How do we safeguard boys (generally age 8+) in changing rooms and toilets?

[Icantmakeanomelette]

I have daughters and so I have no experience of safeguarding male children.

I agree that children need safety from predators, disagree with GG stance on safeguarding (my children are no longer in guiding).

So how are little boys protected from male predators in changing rooms and toilets?

"QuentinWinters Sun 18-Nov-18 21:09:57
I came on to discuss how boys are safegaurded. The answer appears to be with magical thinking
This seems quite goady. I'm reporting the thread"

Please do. What is your aim? To shut down a discussion about how we keep children safe? On a parenting site?

This seems quite goady. I'm reporting the thread

The OP is either being goady or has conflated being gender critical with being a feminist (which I have seen quite a bit here lately) and so thought all bathroom questions should be pointed at the feminist section.

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1004231/gender-neutral-toilets-home-office

"The OP is either being goady or has conflated being gender critical with being a feminist (which I have seen quite a bit here lately) and so thought all bathroom questions should be pointed at the feminist section."

Or she'd like to discuss safeguarding of children with people who don't have their heads in the sand about male violence.

But go with goady, if that suits your agenda.

the problem is that short of men sorting out we are left with few options. Women take on more risk with unisex toilets, or send the boys in alone, or well, that's it really.

We could make the same argument about any feminist issue. The problem is ultimately with men but that doesn't stop it us needing to talk about it or try work towards a solution.
I do agree with you but I'm still out with my 8yo and having to make these decisions.

But go with goady, if that suits your agenda

Thanks, OP, I’m leaning towards thinking this is a goady agenda too.

We've given you the options.

Shout loudly outside.

Pee in a bush.

"PositivelyPERF Sun 18-Nov-18 21:19:30
But go with goady, if that suits your agenda

Thanks, OP, I’m leaning towards thinking this is a goady agenda too."

Yes. Talking about how to safegaurd vulnerable children on a board that relates to a political movement that recognises male violence (when the rest of society tries to avoid this recognition) is goady beyond belief.

Or not.

I agree with GardeningAndKnitting

I only have boys. My 8 year old goes in the mens reluctantly, my 5 year old demands it. I send them in together, loiter outside, and make sure I can hear them talking to each other. If DP's there, then there's no problem anyway.

How are boys safeguarded? Well as gardening says, by being the target of a smaller group of men than girls are, they are already at lower risk hopefully. And that smaller risk, that we'd like to see smaller still? Increasing women's discomfort, or girls risks, will do nothing to mitigate.

^We could make the same argument about any feminist issue. The problem is ultimately with men but that doesn't stop it us needing to talk about it or try work towards a solution.
I do agree with you but I'm still out with my 8yo and having to make these decisions.^

Yes, but feminism tend to discuss male violence as a whole and the ways we can react to make women safer from it. DV shelters, women's toilets etc. But the problem is that male children do become men. It's a grey area when they are seen to be a threat by other women. But it's not for feminists to sort out.

As parents all we can do is try and avoid it whenever possible. What logical option is there that doesn't involve unisex toilets and the larger risk they have for women? The vast majority of sexual offenders are heterosexual.

I don't quite understand what you want women to do, OP. Because I am afraid it does sound like you think this is a problem for women to solve.

I have 2 ideas seeing as men (namalt)have 0 desire to do anything about this problem and apparently 0 responsibility to do anything.

1. More family based toilets or 2. Maybe a genuine little boys room that adult males are not allowed in.

And that's all I have.

Yes. Talking about how to safegaurd vulnerable children on a board that relates to a political movement that recognises male violence (when the rest of society tries to avoid this recognition) is goady beyond belief

You obviously have very strong ideas on how we're all getting it wrong. Why don't you tell us how to sort it?

"I have 2 ideas seeing as men (namalt)have 0 desire to do anything about this problem and apparently 0 responsibility to do anything.

1. More family based toilets or 2. Maybe a genuine little boys room that adult males are not allowed in.

And that's all I have."

Yes, this is where my thinking is going, also. Perhaps our traditional toilet set up isn't fit for purpose at all these days.

More family based toilets

But the women's is basically a family toilet for young boys and I don't think older boys will want to go in with their mums even if it is a "family toilet". we're basically talking about male tweens, it's a very specific category who are most embarrassed by their mothers anyway.

"FrumpyTrumpy Sun 18-Nov-18 21:09:21
Unisex toilets are the answer. I wish they were all unisex. Cubicles only obviously.

Totally agree. Throw a woman under the bus for equality.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html"

I think PurpleAndTurquoise was making a case for individual toilets with floor to ceiling doors and sinks in each cubicle (like you get in all the restaurants round my way because we are a new build city).

Then you posted a link about "unisex changing cubicles" (not at all what Purple referred to) and talked about throwing women under the bus.

And you call ME goady, Frumpy?

I hate sending my seven year old into the gents alone but he is very uncomfortable coming into the ladies with me so sometimes it's unavoidable. I always just say something like don't talk to strangers but don't really like to instill the fear of God into him about potential predators so I don't go on and on about it. I just try to be sensible, stand by the door so people can see I'm waiting there for him, talk to him as he's going in so anyone in there hears I'm out there waiting. It's bloody ridiculous I should be made to feel like I have to do these things in this day and age though. I think the future of public toilets should be all floor to ceiling lockable cubicles, and a communal open plan space for handwashing easily visible to the rest of the building. I've been to certain places like this actually and it works quite well.

If men's toilets were designed on the assumption that mothers might walk in to retrieve their small child, they'd put the cubicles first, and urinals out of direct line of sight round the corner. So you could just watch from the door as boy heads to cubicle. DS is 6 so still young enough to come in with me when DP isn't about, but when younger tended to shoot off into whichever he noticed first (and then get distracted filling the toilet with paper if unsupervised).

Had an interesting discussion one evening about how modern bars are designed with combatting male violence in mind, with clear sightlines for bar staff, bar floor slightly raised, etc.

But as a society, how often are things ever designed for the convenience of mothers?

"cucumbergin Sun 18-Nov-18 21:33:48
If men's toilets were designed on the assumption that mothers might walk in to retrieve their small child, they'd put the cubicles first, and urinals out of direct line of sight round the corner. So you could just watch from the door as boy heads to cubicle."

This is an excellent point.

It's not goady to point out that when men are allowed in to women's spaces they use them to abuse women. Strange you feel that way as you moments ago said you posted in this section as we all accept male violence.

Men currently use hidden camera in in unisex toilets. This already happens where we have unisex facilities and women currently avoid using toilets where they are unisex.

That's also interesting about the design of modern bars, cucumber.

The other thing I have noticed about the new town/city I live in is that restaurant toilets are built with individual cubicles and in pubs the men's toilets have generally always been built on the opposite side of the building to the women's.

There is absolutely no crossover of the sexes on the way to the toilets I wonder if that was also planned with male violence in mind.

I have 2 DS (now teens). I have used the lurking/being audible strategy. Both were made aware from a young age about inappropriate touching as well as being taught to be confident to speak out if an adult made them feel uncomfortable.

Just a couple of days ago a dreadful story hit the news here of a young girl assaulted by a man in the toilets. She had been attending dance lessons (though descriptions were a bit ambiguous about the type of toilets) I assume the toilets were external to the studio - possibly unisex- and shared by numerous businesses on the same floor. They estimate the poor little girl was with the offender for around half an hour. Upon realising she was missing they began searching and a man discovered her with the offender and received several stab wounds another man (ex boxer) heard the struggle and detained the offender now in police custody. The man that was stabbed has been released from hospital. Neither knew the young girl.

I think you do what those of us who are female or have dds do. But in reverse.

Where we would only use facilities that had single sex facilities you would only go some Where that had unisex changing villages family rooms for changing .

I don't think it's fair to push this on to women. These male changing rooms are fill of your husbands fathers and sons whom you always seem to argue woukd be perfectly safe to be in the female facilities with us.

If things need to change (and they clearly do) then it starts with not teaching boys that they have the right to override girls boundries and teaching them girls should suck up men and boys in their spaces.
This is kind of what we do. We plan our journeys and our activities etc around where caters for our needs.

I do see it as a feminist issue - not in the idea it's my job to sort out the menz, but it's another thing that limits lots of women. I'm in some charge of two young boys so have to pick places where I am comfortable for them to go to the loo or get changed on their own.