Genuine question - not goady, I promise, I am GC myself..How do we safeguard boys (generally age 8+) in changing rooms and toilets?

[Icantmakeanomelette]

I have daughters and so I have no experience of safeguarding male children.

I agree that children need safety from predators, disagree with GG stance on safeguarding (my children are no longer in guiding).

So how are little boys protected from male predators in changing rooms and toilets?

Frumpy, you haven't answered how boys are safeguarded in male toilets.

I very clearly said they aren't. Which is precisely why we let them stay in the women's for so long.

I can't, unfortunately, stop the risks. I do know that my sons are statistically far less likely to be sexually assaulted than my daughter and so yes, I will keep spaces safe for her. For safeguarding and also dignity.

Mine is with his Dad or other male relative

All the time? DD frequently goes out with DH. They're swimming today. And I'm off for two weeks on business soon so they'll be on their own reconnaissance then as well. I assume boys also hang out with female relatives.

I would say that male only spaces are not safe for little boys. However, you can teach them to go in pairs, or make a very visible presence outside waiting for them, and train them to shout out.
Male on male violence is a problem. But just because that is an acknowledged problem, that's no reason to make the women's bogs equally unsafe. It's a reason to tackle male violence.

Sorry, I’m now a little pissed off. This whole ‘problem’ is because we’re working on the assumption that childcare is ‘women’s work’ and thus children both male and female will be with a female carer. WTF are these boys fathers? Why aren’t they taking them to the loo?

Well it's not an assumption, it's a fact. The vast majority of SAHP are women and the vast majority of single parents are women. Most marriages end in divorce. It's just true that in most cases it will be a woman with the child.

I dpn't take my DDs to the toilet, they go without me

So why couldn’t a DS?

It is an excellent question and I ask that myself. By DS is 7 now and he is always with me (toilets, changing rooms...), when dad is not available.
I choose mixed changing rooms where possible. I won't let him go into public men's toilet without dad. Not sure how I will proceed in the future. I might just not give a f* and accompany him into the men's once he hits 8 or 9.

There was a case a few years back in the region I then lived, when a man raped a preteen at the pool, so I may be a bit obsessed. I don't care.

What alternative do you suggest OP? Make everything unisex to then spread the risk to girls? That's basically what unisex toilets are about. It's admitting men are dangerous so passing the risk to females.

"Male on male violence is a problem. But just because that is an acknowledged problem, that's no reason to make the women's bogs equally unsafe. It's a reason to tackle male violence"

This is my exact point. How do we tackle this? If people are reading this thread as an attempt by me to justify Self ID they're on crack.

Can we talk about how we can better safeguard boys now, please?

Well done Frumpy, just proved my point there.

I dpn't take my DDs to the toilet, they go without me

So why couldn’t a DS? confused.

A DS could, but I'd worry more about a DS AT THE PRESENT TIME because ,y DDs go in the ladies where currently predatory men aren't allowed to go. Which is not the same as an 8 year old going in the mens where predatory men ARE allowed to go.

I'm not sure why that is a confusing concept for you?

Have you got a point?

Yes, men are dangerous. hence people trying to keep their sons out of male spaces until they are physically a bit bigger. I think 9 is the age most people mention on the bathroom threads.

I don't think anyone here is saying men's toilets are some sort of unicorn utopia for boys. You don't wait loudly outside the door of a unicorn utopia.

FrumpyTrumpy Sun 18-Nov-18 20:34:21
Have you got a point? confused

I've popped onto a feminism board to chat to people about how we can make vulnerable children safer from predatory men. Where else should I be discussing this, frumpy? Style and Beauty?

We can better safeguard boys by getting the message through to men, as a class, that safeguarding children is everyone’s responsibility at all times. This needs to be done with education.

Well, mine didn't have a dad to speak of, so, I took him in the women's until 8 or so, and after that sort of hovered outside, yelling " hurry up"! if he was in there a bit long.
I told him never, ever to use a public toilet in a park, and always took him to the big shopping centre toilets in town where they have a (female) attendant outside and it's always busy.
When swimming we went to one place with a changing village, or, if it was the other one with single sex I would hang about just outside and he knew I would be there.

It is a worry-boys are vulnerable too. Sadly places where men are become automatically less safe for physically vulnerable people.
I have never cared if I go in a changing room or whatever and there's a 10 year old boy (I know that's a huge MN no-no!) because I understand why.

Well, on school trips we would make them go in pairs or groups, and loiter outside. That's all you can do

I've popped onto a feminism board to chat to people about how we can make vulnerable children safer from predatory men. Where else should I be discussing this, frumpy? Style and Beauty

Well, this is mums net. So any of the main boards would make sense. But as feminism isn't actually about protecting males. I don't see why you'd think this was the place to put it.

Mrs Terry Pratchett - yes all the time . Often I'm there too of course, or he is in the care of the school.

The loitering is interesting, thank you. I don't loiter outside - my DDs will leave the table in a restaurant or whatever and take themselves.

So currently it seems that girls are statistically more at risk, but better protected than boys.

Oh and generally the main thing with boys is that they literally can pee anywhere. I don't let my kids use the toilets in the park either but there is always a large bush somewhere.

"Well, this is mums net. So any of the main boards would make sense. But as feminism isn't actually about protecting males. I don't see why you'd think this was the place to put it."

You don't think feminists have an interest in protecting male children?

FrumpyTrumpy Sun 18-Nov-18 20:40:34
Oh and generally the main thing with boys is that they literally can pee anywhere. I don't let my kids use the toilets in the park either but there is always a large bush somewhere.

My DDs could pee on the ground too, but I wouldn't encourage it because it's pretty revolting.

Do you think feminists have an interest in protecting penguins? They're cute and vulnerable.

Tell me why you think it's the job of feminists to protect male children and not parents in general?