Genuine question - not goady, I promise, I am GC myself..How do we safeguard boys (generally age 8+) in changing rooms and toilets?

[Icantmakeanomelette]

I have daughters and so I have no experience of safeguarding male children.

I agree that children need safety from predators, disagree with GG stance on safeguarding (my children are no longer in guiding).

So how are little boys protected from male predators in changing rooms and toilets?

"Do you think feminists have an interest in protecting penguins? They're cute and vulnerable."

I think feminists have an interest in dismantling the patriarchy which exploits vulnerable people.

Unfortunately, I have a male friend who was sexually abused in a public toilet at the age of 12.

It was in central London, so busy

"Tell me why you think it's the job of feminists to protect male children and not parents in general?"

Tell me where I said "it's the job of feminists to protect male children and not parents in general".

That's right. I didn't.

Do you think feminists have an interest in protecting penguins? They're cute and vulnerable.

You know, some feminists have sons Frumpy. This reminds me of this Guardian Julie Bindel article about this African women-only village for raped women and their children, which stated that their sons could stay until 12. And whenever a commenter asked where the boys where put after 12, the comments got deleted, because that question is 'male centric'.
This is so far removed from reality. After all somebody is their mum, and no matter how feminist that mum is, the wish to protect her kid puts her in a bind, even if that child is male.

Well, you did. Because you saw an entire forum devoted to parenting. Many of whom are male parents, and then thought actually... feminism. That's where this belongs.

You know, some feminists have sons Frumpy

I've got sons. And I've already explained several times the processes I have to deal with them in male spaces. But it is a parenting issue. it is not the job of feminism. It's like male circumcision. As a mother I abhor it but it has fuck all to do with feminism.

FrumpyTrumpy Sun 18-Nov-18 20:48:30
Well, you did. Because you saw an entire forum devoted to parenting. Many of whom are male parents, and then thought actually... feminism. That's where this belongs.

Tell me why it doesn't belong here, Frumpy?

I'm not quite sure what you want from this thread OP?

Yes boys are at risk from predatory males in public toilets. But the risk is very very small, most men are not predators.

You have been given lots of sensible advice on this thread on how to minimise risks to your DS.

It almost seems like you aren't listening to the answers and are just trying to start a fight?

I have a son, I worry about my son, but this is just another "women must solve male violence" issue and I'm sorry, I will try my best to raise my son not to be a misogynistic areshole (as will his dad) but tackling male on male violence is not feminist's job, it's men's.

Given that men hold the vast majority of the money, political power and capital in the world, it really shouldn't be a problem for them.

Feminism: organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests

This is like when men say feminist should work on men's suicide rates. Because feminism shouldn't focus on women and girls. All those men who kill themselves have a wife or a mother who will be left devastated by their death but that doesn't make it feminism. That men are damaged by the patriarchy is self evident but feminists don't have to fix everything.

"ItsAllGoingToBeFine Sun 18-Nov-18 20:55:46
I'm not quite sure what you want from this thread OP?

Yes boys are at risk from predatory males in public toilets. But the risk is very very small, most men are not predators.

You have been given lots of sensible advice on this thread on how to minimise risks to your DS.

It almost seems like you aren't listening to the answers and are just trying to start a fight?"

I don't have a DS so who is it that "isn't listening"?

Given that men hold the vast majority of the money, political power and capital in the world, it really shouldn't be a problem for them.

You'd think eh.

As a mother I abhor it but it has fuck all to do with feminism.

I disagree. As a feminist I have to balance the need for female only spaces and my child's safety and I will in many circumstances forgo female only spaces and be myself less protected for it. And if a mum decides her teenage boy is better off in the woman's, thus violating female only spaces, I dare say it is a feminist issue, too.

Why would it be of interest to discuss whether or under what conditions transpeople can enter female only spaces, but not whether or under what conditions male children can enter female only spaces? This is logically inconsistent.

Ok.

When I said "we" as in, how do we protect male children, I meant society.

Not feminists. I apologise if you thought I was conflating me and the people on this board as an "us" of some kind.

I am interested in how children are protected. I am not - and have not - stated that it's a feminists job to do this.

I came on to discuss how boys are safegaurded. The answer appears to be with magical thinking.

Thanks for contributing.

Sex and age impact risk

But part of it is boys have always been at risk using public toilets and girls have been safer. Putting girls at higher risk isn't the answer to the problem of risk to boys.

But in some cases the risk is different.

If we look at teenagers, teenage boys are vulnerable as are teenage girls. In the main they are vulnerable to male predators that are either sexually attracted to women or sexually attracted to men. There's more hetrosexual men than homosexual men and if we assume % of predators is the same there's less overall predators preying on teenage men than teenage women. Also teenage men can be strong enough to defend themselv. So teenage boys are at risk but less risk than girls.

Should that be 'thanks for playing'?

UpstartCrow Sun 18-Nov-18 21:03:55
Should that be 'thanks for playing'?

No.

I disagree. As a feminist I have to balance the need for female only spaces and my child's safety and I will in many circumstances forgo female only spaces and be myself less protected for it. And if a mum decides her teenage boy is better off in the woman's, thus violating female only spaces, I dare say it is a feminist issue, too.

Well currently a teenage boy is not allowed in female spaces and I very much doubt he'd let his mother insists he use the woman's anyway so it's not relevant if his mummy insists anyway.

Why would it be of interest to discuss whether or under what conditions transpeople can enter female only spaces, but not whether or under what conditions male children can enter female only spaces? This is logically inconsistent.

We discuss why trans people are allowed as they are imposing in female spaces.

Male children are allowed to enter spaces because we recognise that young children are usually with a female caregiver and that even if safety wasn't a concern they might need practical help. Being children and all. For the same reason we let little girls in the men's room with their fathers. But when a child is old enough for them to use the men's room it becomes a different subject. Trans children ARE allowed in the women's room with their mothers, just like any other male child.

Unisex toilets are the answer. I wish they were all unisex. Cubicles only obviously.

When I said "we" as in, how do we protect male children, I meant society.Not feminists. I apologise if you thought I was conflating me and the people on this board as an "us" of some kind.

Oh right, soz. My bad I assumed as you posted in the feminism section, that you meant feminism.

"FrumpyTrumpy Sun 18-Nov-18 21:07:26
When I said "we" as in, how do we protect male children, I meant society.Not feminists. I apologise if you thought I was conflating me and the people on this board as an "us" of some kind.

Oh right, soz. My bad I assumed as you posted in the feminism section, that you meant feminism. hmm"

That's ok, thanks.

I'm a single mother. And while it's all very well saying that men need to step up (and they should), I'm still the only parent around when I'm out with DS, as are all the other single mothers.
As to whether it's the job of feminists to protect all children, I don't think it's the 'job' of feminists to do anything.
However, a good deal of feminism is concerned with the nature of male violence, and that's something that affects male children as well as female ones. It's also something that women disproportionately have to worry about because they are more likely to be the caregivers.
Saying that's unfair doesn't make the problem go away for mothers or their children.
I think the issue of male children in the mens is definitely worth talking about and one that doesn't have an easy answer.
I'd very much like to know how other mothers deal with it.
For me, DS is just 8 and I wait for him right outside, and we've had conversations about what to do if he's uncomfortable. It does worry me though.

Unisex toilets are the answer. I wish they were all unisex. Cubicles only obviously.

Totally agree. Throw a woman under the bus for equality.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

I came on to discuss how boys are safegaurded. The answer appears to be with magical thinking
This seems quite goady. I'm reporting the thread

starsandwater the problem is that short of men sorting out we are left with few options. Women take on more risk with unisex toilets, or send the boys in alone, or well, that's it really.

There is nothing women can do about male violence other than be feminists and teach our sons to not be arseholes.