The ethos of trans activism (thoughts of a trans woman)

[OneTimeThing]

Full disclosure, I am a transgender woman. I am a parent. I have been involved in activism to varying levels (mostly on the periphery) and I have tried my best to follow the rules of this forum. I urge you to read this entire post, but will not be offended (or even know) if you don’t.

I am under no illusions, I know what what this board is about but I am not here to change minds. My aim is to effectively communicate the ethos and philosophy of the current trans rights movement as I understand it, and dispel myths. I am not at any point expecting people to agree with the ethos and aims (although I can’t lie, that would make me delighted beyond words) but I hope that at least some of you will have a better understanding of what drives the trans rights movement after reading this.

First, some caveats

1. I cannot represent the entire trans rights movement (hell, I am barely. involved, I have children and live in the middle of knowhere). We are so incredibly diverse that nobody ever could. This is not a message from the trans community or the trans rights movement (these are two distinct things, btw). This is my attempt to explain a common outlook amongst the trans activist community, as I understand it.
2. Once this is posted, I will not return to Mumsnet to answer questions or respond in any other ways. I know this will be read as me not being able to defend “my” positions or that I am here to lecture, condescend, demean or “transplain” to you...but this is not about me or my views. I want to get the facts - as I understand them - to you with as little of myself in this as possible. If I stayed and engaged with your points, eventually this would become about me, which is not the point. Also, I understand this is your space, and I do not want to overstay my welcome anymore than I already am by posting this.
3. I know some of you will never listen to anything I have to say. That is okay. I do not expect or feel entitled to anyone’s attention. If this dies with nobody reading it, fine, if hundreds of you read it, also fine. I will never know either way.
4. As I mentioned in (1), I cannot represent the entire trans community, nor can I answer for everything the trans community does. We are not a monolith. I am here to talk in broad strokes. Yes, some trans people are idiots. Yes, some trans people post awful things on social media. I hope you can take what I am saying in good faith and not use a 14 year old’s tumblr post about how the term “breast milk” is transphobic as an excuse to trash this entire post.
5. Please believe me. These are things that - I believe - very broadly unite most trans activists. They believe these things, and to a certain extent, I do too. These are not lies to justify some alterior motive. Please believe me.
6. I hope you can keep an open mind, even if you believe that the “other side” is incapable of keeping an open mind about your points. Please don’t use the flaws (perceived or real) of the “other side” as an excuse to sink to their level.

Okay, here is the main course:

1. Trans people believe that the end point of your beliefs is their annihilation

The view of trans people is that to be a friend to trans people, all a person would have to do is accept them for who and what they say they are (Trans men are men, trans women are women...etc). Trans people do not demonstrate against people who accept them. They demonstrate against people that do not. If Julie Bindel came out and said “trans men/women are men/women,” nobody would demonstrate against her on trans issues ever again. They would continue to demonstrate against others.

But if you look at it the other way round...for trans people to become friends with a gender critical person...that trans person would have to give up their sense of self (their gender identity) almost entirely, and they believe that this can and has lead to people dying. You may think this is a histrionic response, but if you look around the gender critical communities, there aims tend to include rolling back legal recognition of trans identities, making it harder to access healthcare and - in some circles- the withdrawal of trans healthcare in its entirety...

Trans people see those aims as attacks on their ability to exist. These are things that trans people believe they CANNOT live without. Whether you agree with it or not, that is how trans people see it. Many trans women would rather die than go back to living as a man. Same with trans men. To trans people, this is about their very existence.

A not insignificant number of trans people use this as a justification to use the tactics of Antifa against certain groups and public speakers. For those of you unfamiliar, Antifa’s aim is to stop the spread of an ideology that will lead to genocide. Hitler and Mussolini started their fascist movements with less than a hundred people each, so Antifa look to nip fascism in the bud before it can bloom because fascism ALWAYS ends in genocide if left unchecked. There is no other destination for fascism than violence, and so they attempt to no-platform Milo, they get Daily Stormer’s hosting suspended, they protest Katie Hopkins....

Many trans people do not see you as fascists. But they do see you are potentially just as dangerous. They are scared that if you were to ever achieve your aims, trans people’s lives would be in danger.

Do they think that this will lead to death camps co-ordinated by FairPlay for Women? No. It is like I said before: they fear the removal of their ability to be themselves, which is essentially, death.

As you will know, it was Janice Raymond’s recommendations to the Reagan administration that resulted in the total withdrawal of trans healthcare from Medicare and Medicaid in the 1980’s. I mention this because some of you will be thinking that this is a totally irrational response and no gender critical people want to eradicate trans people. But this move did hurt thousands of trans people in the United States and it has been read by the trans community as a violent attack on their existence.

This is why trans people protest the meetings. This is why they work to no-platform people. They see it as self defence in a fight that could end with their death.

I know many of you will be thinking that they see it the same way, that the trans movement’s logical end point is the end and total erasure of biological womanhood.

You believing that does not cancel out how the trans community views you. Whether you agree or disagree with this assessment, this is how they see it.

1. The deciding factor is not the fact that you are a woman or a lesbian: it is that you speak out against trans people.

As mentioned in my first point, trans people do not protest women who are campaigning for reproductive rights, or women who go to the shops or women who play football.

They speak out against people who speak out against them.

I see the argument thrown around a lot that trans people want to “silence women” and this is not what trans rights activists are aiming to do. Nobody tries to no-platform Julie Bindel because she is a working class lesbian. Working class lesbians campaign and speak out on a number of issues and trans people do not protest them. Julie Bindel’s sex, sexuality and class are not the reasons trans people show up to shut her down.

Her views on trans people are the reason. Her articles arguing that trans women are men and therefore are dangerous, are the triggers that cause a pushback.

So why are these women’s groups the focus of trans activists? Why not Christian groups? Or the far right? Because trans issues are not those group’s sole focus. These groups, when they do get airtime, and do hold meetings, are not solely discussing trans rights.

If Christian splinter groups were forming with names like “God Doesn’t Make Mistakes” or such like things, and were getting media buzz on anywhere the same level, trans activists would be there too. Trans activists were there to protest Milo, the cross over between Antifa and trans activists is not insignificant because fascism would not leave trans people alone. To claim that the trans community targets women because they are women is missing the point.

1. Trans activism is more than Antifa tactics.

Trans activists take many forms. Some make support groups, others lobby MPs, some write, some paint, some tweet, I met one trans person who advocated for trans rights through dance. Whilst fighting back against gender critical voices is absolutely one big aspect of trans activism, the scene is so much bigger and with so many aims. This is important to remember, if for no other reason than when you look to respond, that you do not oversimplify the community .

And that is that. I want to reiterate why I have told you all of this. I am not here to argue that you are wrong, or that trans women are women or whatever. I came here to explain the ideology behind the protests and fight back. I sincerely hope this informs how you understand the trans rights movement. You may see this as me justifying abhorrent behaviour. That was never my aim. My aim was to inform how trans activists think - good and bad - in VERY broad strokes.

Thank you for reading, thank you for keeping an open mind.

Some people with fundamentalist religious views may feel totally violated
if they ever hear that
e.g. God didn't create the world in 6 days and didn't create Adam from nothing

That's no justification for a religious antifada,
even if the religious nutter person feels totally annhilated when their view of creation is corrected by anyone familiar with evolution, with how stars are formed and over what time span it all happens

Trans people believe that the end point of your beliefs is their annihilation
And herein lies the problem.
Transactivists are so wrapped up in themselves that that don't bother listening to women at all, they just invent this notion of what women want.
It's not what we want, but you don't want to hear that, it doesn't suit your agenda.

Patient to a fault, me, and curious to a fault and compelled to finish every book or article lest I am disrespectful to the author. I want to learn and understand and hopefully be understood in return, so I read almost all the posts here written from a trans perspective.

But in a rare bout of impatience I stopped reading once the OP outed themselves as a plopper. After instructing me how I had to read their diatribe. Don't like ploppers, that's just disrespectful of Mumsnetters' time and hate being told what to do. So I just read the replies and as always they didn't disappoint. Hamster was a newfound delight and a shoutout to Horrible Tranny, too. You don't seem to hate us, I definitely don't hate you, so let's talk.

But two things did catch my eye while travelling down that I want to comment on. So.

As mentioned in my first point, trans people do not protest women who are campaigning for reproductive rights [...] They speak out against people who speak out against them.

See, before I actually became aware of the GRA issue and this whole debate, these things TRAs did protest against stuck in my mind because it didn't make any sense to me at the time. They do now, of course, and they also prove your claim wrong.

1. An attack on the Vagina Monologues as exclusionary and transphobic

The night I went to see this one-woman-play with my friends I saw one of the best, funniest, saddest, hard-hitting and thought-provoking reflections on womanhood in my life. So many issues I'd never given thought to. So relevant to all of us, in so many different ways. I laughed, I cried, I saw my own life in someone else's story.

It was by definition exclusionary of males, of course. What there wasn't in the entire play was an ounce of transphobia. It was still attacked by TRAs. Who even called for a boycott.

2. The pussy hats. Everyone here remembers. They were not transphobic. Still attacked by TRAs and banned from many women's marches.

3. An educational project that sought to educate women about the vagina. Attacked for calling the vagina a female sex organ and for saying it was a project for women. Got cancelled.

Later on we had

4. Bergdorf demanding feminism stop centering reproductive rights

5. A Scottish female journalist reporting the rape of a baby girl in India Attacked by GRAs for being transphobic because she mentioned the baby's sex.

6. Campaigners against FGM attacked by TRAs for campaigning against FEMALE genital mutilation

And so on and so forth ad nauseam.

Womanhood. Our biology. Our lived experiences. Our trauma. Our needs. No one need say anything against TRAs. That we want to talk about women, women's issues and women's rights is enough for an attack.

So why are these women’s groups the focus of trans activists? Why not Christian groups? Or the far right? Because trans issues are not those group’s sole focus. These groups, when they do get airtime, and do hold meetings, are not solely discussing trans rights.

This is tiresome. If we have a sole focus, it's that of protecting women's sex-based rights. We do not meet to discuss trans rights. We meet to discuss women's rights and the safeguarding of children and vulnerable adults. That you honestly think we dedicate our time to discussing trans rights betrays an alarming level of narcissism. As I have told many a man before: Not everything I (we) do is about you.

And some cheeky fucker took the opportunity, while I carelessly left my mind open, to piss into it with lots of passive aggressive whining
Totally nicking this.

GenderCritter your dance was beautiful. Or so your cat told my dog.

It is also a complete lie to claim that it's only because GC women say stuff that TRAs feel is inciting annihilation that they get so much trouble. Men say the same stuff as women, and don't get anything like the threats and aggression that is meted out on women (journos like Jame Kirkup have observed this on many occasions)

If women are indeed being attacked for the things that they say - and thus the attacks will go away once they learn to bleat the approved mantra - one would expect as many men as women to have been threatened with rape, asked to DIAF and all the other delightful things that get thrown at anyone who puts their head over the GC parapet. It just doesn't happen like that - so one can only conclude that the reason for the particular vitriol is in fact because the speaker is a woman

Beerincome, I’m sorry your post was deleted, it was so funny I stole it for future use. The world being as it is, that probably won’t be far off.

I cannot take credit for suffrajitsu. It was a real thing. The suffragettes included a woman call Edith Garrud, who was a martial arts instructor and trained the suffragettes in armed and unarmed combat. It’s a wonderful story.

www.atlasobscura.com/articles/suffrajitsu

Hamster00 excellent post.

I wonder what all the trans people who do support women think.

This is a new phenomenon. Not people being transsexual but people thinking exactly what they think is true. Because it is about them. And who could be a better expert on them, than them. But realistically, what all of us want is to co-exist well together, look after our families etc.

The very young seem to think they know a lot, they are caught up in this.

Their emotions are raw and strong. It is painful to watch.

Like most here, I am sure, I know young trans people and it is painful to see that their lives have been so dominated by this. The adults around them are doing their best (or so it seems) and I am hopeful that with time many young people will work out what is best for them.

I do believe some will genuinely be transsexual and that will be the route for them. Others will not, they will move on.

As someone close to someone in turmoil, I only want the very best for them. Trans women and women, and many men too, are victims of the toxic masculinity of the age. The idea that women are not targeted because they are women, is ludicrous.

The church and other religions have been quite anti gay rights, anti women's right and anti trans rights, yet they are not targeted.

Most harm is done to trans women, and trans men, by males, there is no reason to pick on women except that is what culture has led 'us' as a society to do. Women must be to blame. Mother lets you down.

I am sill looking for that bridge between women and the trans community. But plopping a brain dump on a thread is a splat and not a bridge.

PS someone said way back that if self id were to come in then rights for trans people to medical help, e.g. counselling, hormones, drugs or surgery could well be cut back. This is the thing that these trans people who do not have a medical diagnosis of dysphoria are missing!

They may not need these serves but people with real gender dysphoria may well need these services, and hey will almost certainly be shut down or limited if the link between being trans gender and having gender dysphoria is broken.

Ffs Materialist I did not know that. That is just so beyond the pale. I've just watched that epic rant on Youtube and feel like shouting my rage about all of this from the rooftops. We are women and men do not get to erase us. Using our socialisation against us, our compassion, our sympathy. Grooming women into accepting that feminism must solve everyone else's issues before our own. Well, I have had enough. Their identity crisis gives them no right to appropriate my reality.

I'm curious as to why the OP would think that we don't already know all of this.

We know what you think. Knowing what you think is unavoidable, as your perspective is all over the media and ubiquitous on social media (though that's slowly changing). It's you who don't understand us.

Not quite sure what turning up and declaring your poor mental health and fragile grip on reality, and that of your comrades in arms, was meant to achieve, OP.

kvinne

A poster recently said that if people weren't transphobic then why were they defending themselves from accusations of being transphobic

Which is one of the dumbest thing ive ever head...and its one of thise tricksy ...oooh look no one is saying they are not transphobic, they are admitting it....type traps

Having said that...i dont defend myself when it comes to comments that are quite patently false, and at the very least a massive generalisation

A poster recently said that if people weren't transphobic then why were they defending themselves from accusations of being transphobic

On the grounds that 'only the true Messiah denies their divinity', eh?

More like "so when did you stop beating your wife?"

I'll start responding to accusations of transphobia when TRAs and allies start defending why they are misogynists.

Until then, they can fuck off.

I love being ordered what to think, say and do. I'm just a poor feeble-minded female, after all, and am not capable of getting my ladybrain to deal with complex issues. What a good job I have menz to instruct me and keep me on the straight and narrow (irony intended).

So OP.....what do you suggest I make my manly man for his dinner? Should I wear the pink pinny or the lilac one whilst I lovingly prepare it?

HorribleTranny

Thank you for understanding that trans women are not women. Based on that alone, you have established a foundation on which we can genuinely discuss the issue and find common ground.

However, I've been pondering your comment "it does get tedious reading (mostly twitter but a couple here also) online that trans= mental health issues" and I think a little clarification might be in order.

Are you suggesting that transgender individuals do not have a mental health diagnosis? The narrative (from the medical community) has been that transgender individuals suffer from gender dysphoria, a gender incongruence that is so deep and unremitting that the only treatment is to fully embrace the appearance and "life" of the perceived gender, which typically includes the use of powerful hormones and major surgery, and requires accommodations and protection by the law.

If this is not the case and being "trans" is simply an identity, no different than considering oneself a feminist or an environmentalist, then I have difficulty accepting that public health insurance should cover the costs of hormones/surgeries, (no longer a "treatment" for any diagnosis), and that public accommodations are necessary.

You can't have it both ways.

George I do have dysphoria and will acknowledge it may be seen as that, but where my fear/frustration for want of a better word comes from, is the portrayal that we are non functioning/fragile due to this, Some trans are also guilty of this as mental health problems would bar me from my occupation, if it gains traction I'm finished, perhaps an unfounded fear,
I don't need to mention it as such here, but on other sites I do actively point out we do not need and must not gain access to female spaces as this will open the door to those who will use us as a shield to gain access for their own gratification putting you in danger.
I also point out to them we do not suffer from PMT or have lady brains etc. On twitter account 2 but doubt I will have that 1 for too long either.

Brilliant post, GeorgeFayne. If transgender doesn't mean gender dysphoria it becomes an identity, like being a goth. In the case of Philip/Pippa Bunce it looks more like a hobby. No need for legal acknowledgement or social changes.

Rufus precisely. Can i also point out the slightly passive aggressive username

Kvinne Nothing wrong with stating TW are not W, I can't understand why the site would delete posts for stating it but let my post stand when I've also stated it.

horrible

I think its the 'misgendering' that would have incurred the deletion

(I don't remember the post so ive no idea what it said)

Sorry Kvinne I was the one who reported your post.
I thought it was a bit of an unnecessary sarcastic attack when horrible hadn't actually done anything.