The ethos of trans activism (thoughts of a trans woman)

[OneTimeThing]

Full disclosure, I am a transgender woman. I am a parent. I have been involved in activism to varying levels (mostly on the periphery) and I have tried my best to follow the rules of this forum. I urge you to read this entire post, but will not be offended (or even know) if you don’t.

I am under no illusions, I know what what this board is about but I am not here to change minds. My aim is to effectively communicate the ethos and philosophy of the current trans rights movement as I understand it, and dispel myths. I am not at any point expecting people to agree with the ethos and aims (although I can’t lie, that would make me delighted beyond words) but I hope that at least some of you will have a better understanding of what drives the trans rights movement after reading this.

First, some caveats

1. I cannot represent the entire trans rights movement (hell, I am barely. involved, I have children and live in the middle of knowhere). We are so incredibly diverse that nobody ever could. This is not a message from the trans community or the trans rights movement (these are two distinct things, btw). This is my attempt to explain a common outlook amongst the trans activist community, as I understand it.
2. Once this is posted, I will not return to Mumsnet to answer questions or respond in any other ways. I know this will be read as me not being able to defend “my” positions or that I am here to lecture, condescend, demean or “transplain” to you...but this is not about me or my views. I want to get the facts - as I understand them - to you with as little of myself in this as possible. If I stayed and engaged with your points, eventually this would become about me, which is not the point. Also, I understand this is your space, and I do not want to overstay my welcome anymore than I already am by posting this.
3. I know some of you will never listen to anything I have to say. That is okay. I do not expect or feel entitled to anyone’s attention. If this dies with nobody reading it, fine, if hundreds of you read it, also fine. I will never know either way.
4. As I mentioned in (1), I cannot represent the entire trans community, nor can I answer for everything the trans community does. We are not a monolith. I am here to talk in broad strokes. Yes, some trans people are idiots. Yes, some trans people post awful things on social media. I hope you can take what I am saying in good faith and not use a 14 year old’s tumblr post about how the term “breast milk” is transphobic as an excuse to trash this entire post.
5. Please believe me. These are things that - I believe - very broadly unite most trans activists. They believe these things, and to a certain extent, I do too. These are not lies to justify some alterior motive. Please believe me.
6. I hope you can keep an open mind, even if you believe that the “other side” is incapable of keeping an open mind about your points. Please don’t use the flaws (perceived or real) of the “other side” as an excuse to sink to their level.

Okay, here is the main course:

1. Trans people believe that the end point of your beliefs is their annihilation

The view of trans people is that to be a friend to trans people, all a person would have to do is accept them for who and what they say they are (Trans men are men, trans women are women...etc). Trans people do not demonstrate against people who accept them. They demonstrate against people that do not. If Julie Bindel came out and said “trans men/women are men/women,” nobody would demonstrate against her on trans issues ever again. They would continue to demonstrate against others.

But if you look at it the other way round...for trans people to become friends with a gender critical person...that trans person would have to give up their sense of self (their gender identity) almost entirely, and they believe that this can and has lead to people dying. You may think this is a histrionic response, but if you look around the gender critical communities, there aims tend to include rolling back legal recognition of trans identities, making it harder to access healthcare and - in some circles- the withdrawal of trans healthcare in its entirety...

Trans people see those aims as attacks on their ability to exist. These are things that trans people believe they CANNOT live without. Whether you agree with it or not, that is how trans people see it. Many trans women would rather die than go back to living as a man. Same with trans men. To trans people, this is about their very existence.

A not insignificant number of trans people use this as a justification to use the tactics of Antifa against certain groups and public speakers. For those of you unfamiliar, Antifa’s aim is to stop the spread of an ideology that will lead to genocide. Hitler and Mussolini started their fascist movements with less than a hundred people each, so Antifa look to nip fascism in the bud before it can bloom because fascism ALWAYS ends in genocide if left unchecked. There is no other destination for fascism than violence, and so they attempt to no-platform Milo, they get Daily Stormer’s hosting suspended, they protest Katie Hopkins....

Many trans people do not see you as fascists. But they do see you are potentially just as dangerous. They are scared that if you were to ever achieve your aims, trans people’s lives would be in danger.

Do they think that this will lead to death camps co-ordinated by FairPlay for Women? No. It is like I said before: they fear the removal of their ability to be themselves, which is essentially, death.

As you will know, it was Janice Raymond’s recommendations to the Reagan administration that resulted in the total withdrawal of trans healthcare from Medicare and Medicaid in the 1980’s. I mention this because some of you will be thinking that this is a totally irrational response and no gender critical people want to eradicate trans people. But this move did hurt thousands of trans people in the United States and it has been read by the trans community as a violent attack on their existence.

This is why trans people protest the meetings. This is why they work to no-platform people. They see it as self defence in a fight that could end with their death.

I know many of you will be thinking that they see it the same way, that the trans movement’s logical end point is the end and total erasure of biological womanhood.

You believing that does not cancel out how the trans community views you. Whether you agree or disagree with this assessment, this is how they see it.

1. The deciding factor is not the fact that you are a woman or a lesbian: it is that you speak out against trans people.

As mentioned in my first point, trans people do not protest women who are campaigning for reproductive rights, or women who go to the shops or women who play football.

They speak out against people who speak out against them.

I see the argument thrown around a lot that trans people want to “silence women” and this is not what trans rights activists are aiming to do. Nobody tries to no-platform Julie Bindel because she is a working class lesbian. Working class lesbians campaign and speak out on a number of issues and trans people do not protest them. Julie Bindel’s sex, sexuality and class are not the reasons trans people show up to shut her down.

Her views on trans people are the reason. Her articles arguing that trans women are men and therefore are dangerous, are the triggers that cause a pushback.

So why are these women’s groups the focus of trans activists? Why not Christian groups? Or the far right? Because trans issues are not those group’s sole focus. These groups, when they do get airtime, and do hold meetings, are not solely discussing trans rights.

If Christian splinter groups were forming with names like “God Doesn’t Make Mistakes” or such like things, and were getting media buzz on anywhere the same level, trans activists would be there too. Trans activists were there to protest Milo, the cross over between Antifa and trans activists is not insignificant because fascism would not leave trans people alone. To claim that the trans community targets women because they are women is missing the point.

1. Trans activism is more than Antifa tactics.

Trans activists take many forms. Some make support groups, others lobby MPs, some write, some paint, some tweet, I met one trans person who advocated for trans rights through dance. Whilst fighting back against gender critical voices is absolutely one big aspect of trans activism, the scene is so much bigger and with so many aims. This is important to remember, if for no other reason than when you look to respond, that you do not oversimplify the community .

And that is that. I want to reiterate why I have told you all of this. I am not here to argue that you are wrong, or that trans women are women or whatever. I came here to explain the ideology behind the protests and fight back. I sincerely hope this informs how you understand the trans rights movement. You may see this as me justifying abhorrent behaviour. That was never my aim. My aim was to inform how trans activists think - good and bad - in VERY broad strokes.

Thank you for reading, thank you for keeping an open mind.

The fact that this post was 50% (maybe more) devoted to explaining exactly HOW we should read and understand it rendered the rest of it unreadable. How on earth are we supposed to remain open minded, if we have already been told how we should approach what you are saying.

From the moment I read that we should be an ally by accepting whatever trans people "say" they are I knew the agenda. It is not about what you say you are, but your actions and this applies to every person on this Earth.

I can say I am kind, but if I spout abuse at a stranger, my actions are disproving my belief about myself. Transwomen can "say" they are women, but if they then show clear male patterns of behaviour, their actions are disproving their belief. And that's without going into the biology aspect.

As someone who has been living under a rock for the last six years and inly recentlynstarted to re engage with the wider world i have to say that i have learnt A LOT from this....almost entirely from the comments, admittedly, but stuff has been learnt nonetheless.
Thank you all for taking the time to post your thoughts and facts on this topic. It's all had the opposite effect on me to that which the OP intended, i suspect.

OP, thank you very much, that was sincerely very interesting and I appreciate you taking the time to write all that out. I think it's very important to listen to people when they are trying so hard to explain their perspective.

Really sorry though I am a bit thick. I'm not understanding this part:

Many trans people do not see you as fascists. But they do see you are potentially just as dangerous. They are scared that if you were to ever achieve your aims, trans people’s lives would be in danger. Do they think that this will lead to death camps co-ordinated by FairPlay for Women? No. It is like I said before: they fear the removal of their ability to be themselves, which is essentially, death.

Still not sure what is causing them to feel like they are being literally annihilated? If I say no to their penis in my shower cubicle, is that literal murder? Or is it something else which is so threatening to them? Because I'm stupid and need specifics. If I agreed to say that I believed them to be women, THEN would they keep their penises out of my shower cubicle?

Really, why do they require so much external validation? Black people do not require me to confess that I think of them as black, gays don't care at all if I fail to notice they're gay and even women just laugh at the idea that I might be confused regarding their bio sex. It's only male bodied people who need me to pretend they're something they're not. What is the purpose of this pretense?

such an excessively long, dogmatic diatribe on a site mainly used by women eh? Can you imagine if I wrote a similarly excessive post on Pistonhead chastising them for liking Porches and telling them to buy Ford Fiestas instead?

This is such a good thought experiment and worth really fleshing out.

The OP on Pistonheads would need to have as much needless repetition and include the 'reasonable' sounding threats of 'if you could only acknowledge that Ford Fiestas are superior to Porsches then we could be friends and would not picket your meetings, no platform you and try to stop you having conversations'..

Just how would that go down?

Also OP

But if you look at it the other way round...for trans people to become friends with a gender critical person...that trans person would have to give up their sense of self (their gender identity) almost entirely, and they believe that this can and has lead to people dying

That is the most ludicrous statement I've heard in a long time. My best friend is a GNC GC feminist. She's opinionated, robust in her arguments, bolshie, and frankly exasperating at times. She also cares for me deeply, doesn't deny my existence as a transsexual person and we've always supported each OTHER through life's ups and downs. I love her to bits.

I have not ONCE found my identity "threatened" because of my friendship with her. Never have I questioned my own self-identity - and as for the ridiculous statement on suicide, I won't even quantify that with a response.

As for the Mumsnetters on this board, many of the women here are vastly more educated than myself (to the point I sometimes have problems following the arguments without having to re-read them a few times). Sometimes, some of the things they say make me feel a little uncomfortable or take a sharp intake of breath - but again, do I feel "threatened" by it. Of course not...

If your own identity is threatened by other people's OPINIONS then you should really start questioning yourself....

If the OP is reading, or indeed those who share such beliefs might I suggest in return reading this thread.
Many people new to the discussion have found it very helpful:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Yy Hamster it strikes me as being a rather precarious way of existing, to set such store by other people’s opinions of you, which realistically you will never be able to control. Why not take time to come to terms with yourself as you really are, then when someone else correctly reads you as your birth sex, it can’t hurt you, because you’re not pretending to be something you’re actually not.
Nothing could induce me to put all that power in the opinions of others, especially being as I’m a fairly fat middle aged woman 🤔

I don’t mean you you btw, Hamster I was agreeing with your post! That might not have been clear

to set such store by other people’s opinions of you, which realistically you will never be able to control.

Especially if your opinions accord with reality, and theirs don't.

Well yes, Datun exactly! Opinions v facts. Unless tras somehow manage to enforce universal conversion to pomoism, facts are going to remain popular

If your religion was true, if even you believed it was true, you wouldn't have to spend so much energy trying to force other people to believe it. It must be absolutely exhausting to have staked your entire existence on a lie to the extent that you cannot be happy, literally cannot survive (apparently) unless everyone else joins in. I feel so desperately sorry for you.

But not sorry enough to join you in the lie.

Oh well, that's three minutes of my life I won't get back. Don't rush back, OP.

What’s all this about Janis Raymond (wrong) and trying to roll back trans healthcare? This is a UK sight. You do know that don’t you OP?

So OP, clearly American, comes on a UK forum to correct all our wrong think, but doesn’t have the balls to stick around to discuss their position. Hmm, can’t think why posters are having none of it.

I got half way through the annihilation part and gave up, and I was really trying. Such a lot of self indulgent tripe. Basically, do as we say or else. Yeah, that’s gonna work...

Hamster 

Sorry, meant to say great post, Hamster!

OP no one here is unclear on what drives the 'trans movement' - I think by that you mean actually mean a specific and political aspect of the trans movement as there are a number of well respected trans MNetters, one of whom is on this thread, who share their concerns with the POV you are espousing and are clear it doesn't speak for them, in fact it is as damaging to them as to women.

It is not that no one has explained well enough. It's that people here do not agree and see the damage to others within this agenda that they are being asked to shut their eyes to. Your problem is not 'I don't understand', your problem is 'no'.

What a fabulous opening post. If there are still any waverers out there, this will surely peak trans them. Well done! Thanks for your input 

You may think this is a histrionic response

Not to mention long-winded.

Another thing OP... (apologies, I'm picking this apart in chunks because that wall of text is a goldmine)..

Firstly "well done" for evoking Godwin's Law and comparing GC feminists to Nazi's before you'd even got half way through your post. You'll have really made friends there...

You state They are scared that if you were to ever achieve your aims, trans people’s lives would be in danger. What aims are these? Is my life in danger because I can't use a women's changing room in a gym? I'd have thought it the other way around - with the potential for all the hairy panty wearers and sex pests with their "gender feelz" to get free passes to hang out wherever they wanted, expose themselves wherever they wanted and potentially abuse whoever they wanted under the guise of "I'm a woman". But people like you don't think of women do you - only YOUR rights at the expense of a protected group.

Do they think that this will lead to death camps co-ordinated by FairPlay for Women? No. It is like I said before: they fear the removal of their ability to be themselves, which is essentially, death.

I can't even with this. Honestly, if trans people are feeling like this they need SERIOUS PSYCHIATRIC HELP. Gender Dysphoria is a vile condition, and I will admit to having bouts of suicidal ideation and a short stint in a psych hospital in the past. I cannot stress enough what a disgusting mental illness it is, but there is help and treatment for it if you're willing to engage with it. At its most serious, hormones and surgery are the only "sticking plaster" for it, but it never goes away.

NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY on these boards, Twitter, FPFW, WP, Posie, Venice or anyone else is advocating the "removal" of anyone's ability to be themselves. NOBODY is even suggesting the "extermination" of trans women. You don't get it....this is about the "extermination" of WOMEN'S RIGHTS not ours.

If you ever come back to this post and can tell me what rights trans people are in danger of losing I'd LOVE to know. Seriously... really...

I think most people, and most women here, understand what you are talking about; about how trans people perceive the issue. They see it as a simple human rights issue, and that women are opposing their rights.

Women are not opposing their human rights, though, nor their existence. What women are opposing is the larger trans movement as an ideology; and most importantly, and more immediately, the erosion of the existence of us as women: the ability to name ourselves and our experience; and on our right to dignified and single sex spaces and services when required.

The main bone of contention is the phrase " Trans Women are Women". We don't accept, nor believe that to be the case. And we see that statement as the thin edge of a very large wedge - which is resulting in the literal erasure of us as women. Changes to language and to basic concepts over which we have not been consulted.

No other group is demanding whole-sale changes to biological and linguistic concepts - that effect the whole of society - purely to feel accepting of themselves. This seems a particularly brittle and fragile way to construct an identity. Self identities should not be so essentially fragile and dependent on the silencing of others, for their existence.The reason that the identity of most trans people seems so vulnerable, shaky and brittle - is because it is founded on a material lie. An untruth.

I think most feel compassion for human suffering, and for all those caught up in trying to find medical solutions to psychological and emotional problems; but have essential disagreement that one can be born in the wrong body.

It wouldn't be such an issue though - if it was being forced down everyone's throats, and at the expense of women's rights, feelings and spaces. It is possible to be trans and respectful of women and their spaces, at the same time. See Debbie Hayton as one example. Women will be welcoming when there is respect; but one must be invited in. You cannot force entry.

And we see that statement as the thin edge of a very large wedge - which is resulting in the literal erasure of us as women. Changes to language and to basic concepts over which we have not been consulted.

Recent article by
Caroline Norma (lectures in the School of Global, Urban and Social Studies at RMIT University Australia.)

'Transgenderism: The Latest Anti-Feminist Wedge of the Left'

(extract)
The Left today is nonetheless achieving a purge of feminists from its ranks unrivalled by their previous successes of the 1980s and 1990s. Playing wedge politics is still the tactic of choice, but the issue requiring women's pledge of allegiance is brand new.

Transgenderism bastardises the core feminist insight that "woman" is a politically defined social category generated by male violence and the exclusion, expropriation and colonisation of female human beings. Rendered as a Leftist wedge issue, this insight becomes the distorted proposition that "woman" is a flexible human "identity" with which any individual might associate themselves - even fully-grown rational male human beings.

Rather than being a designator of subordinated social class membership, "woman" is a feeling that can swell in any man's breast. Acting on this feeling, he might adopt sex-stereotyped clothing and behaviours, and others must hold these caricatured displays in high regard. Female pronouns must be used, and laws and policies must be changed to newly recognise women, not as an historically vulnerable social group, but as the product of an individual man's inner thoughts and feelings.

The Leftist purge of women who refuse publicly to declare allegiance to such ideas of transgenderism is proceeding apace. It takes the form of the "no-platforming" of feminists at speaking events, the petitioning of conference venues to drop bookings from feminist groups, the public harassment and ridicule of dissenters, and lobbying for women to be removed from jobs and positions of public profile." (continues)

www.abc.net.au/religion/transgenderism-the-latest-anti-feminist-wedge-of-the-left/10097710

I love a bit of emotional blackmail on a Monday morning.

I've met and made friends with many people from different religions and ways of life over the years and not once have I been told that if I don't believe the same as them it will mean I want them annihilated.

If trans people feel that feminists are out to have them annihilated and they are feeling sucicidal then they really do need serious psychiatric help.

...and lastly OP, as I'm sure you're reading this post (and before I develop full blown rabies over your diatribe....)

You mention the Antifa tactics of TRAs. No it's MALE VIOLENCE plain and simple.

How many women from the organisations I've mentioned previously, or this board are walking round wearing "Die Trnny Scum", or "Punch a Trnny" t-shirt? How many women are randomly going up to TRAs having a peaceful demonstration in Hyde Park and just punching them? How many women are doxxing, stalking, exposing TRA children? How many women are standing outside newspaper offices letting off smoke bombs / flares and scaring the shit out of innocent bystanders?

Honestly, I'm done with this now....

What's that old saying?

"What anybody else thinks of you is none of your business"