The ethos of trans activism (thoughts of a trans woman)

[OneTimeThing]

Full disclosure, I am a transgender woman. I am a parent. I have been involved in activism to varying levels (mostly on the periphery) and I have tried my best to follow the rules of this forum. I urge you to read this entire post, but will not be offended (or even know) if you don’t.

I am under no illusions, I know what what this board is about but I am not here to change minds. My aim is to effectively communicate the ethos and philosophy of the current trans rights movement as I understand it, and dispel myths. I am not at any point expecting people to agree with the ethos and aims (although I can’t lie, that would make me delighted beyond words) but I hope that at least some of you will have a better understanding of what drives the trans rights movement after reading this.

First, some caveats

1. I cannot represent the entire trans rights movement (hell, I am barely. involved, I have children and live in the middle of knowhere). We are so incredibly diverse that nobody ever could. This is not a message from the trans community or the trans rights movement (these are two distinct things, btw). This is my attempt to explain a common outlook amongst the trans activist community, as I understand it.
2. Once this is posted, I will not return to Mumsnet to answer questions or respond in any other ways. I know this will be read as me not being able to defend “my” positions or that I am here to lecture, condescend, demean or “transplain” to you...but this is not about me or my views. I want to get the facts - as I understand them - to you with as little of myself in this as possible. If I stayed and engaged with your points, eventually this would become about me, which is not the point. Also, I understand this is your space, and I do not want to overstay my welcome anymore than I already am by posting this.
3. I know some of you will never listen to anything I have to say. That is okay. I do not expect or feel entitled to anyone’s attention. If this dies with nobody reading it, fine, if hundreds of you read it, also fine. I will never know either way.
4. As I mentioned in (1), I cannot represent the entire trans community, nor can I answer for everything the trans community does. We are not a monolith. I am here to talk in broad strokes. Yes, some trans people are idiots. Yes, some trans people post awful things on social media. I hope you can take what I am saying in good faith and not use a 14 year old’s tumblr post about how the term “breast milk” is transphobic as an excuse to trash this entire post.
5. Please believe me. These are things that - I believe - very broadly unite most trans activists. They believe these things, and to a certain extent, I do too. These are not lies to justify some alterior motive. Please believe me.
6. I hope you can keep an open mind, even if you believe that the “other side” is incapable of keeping an open mind about your points. Please don’t use the flaws (perceived or real) of the “other side” as an excuse to sink to their level.

Okay, here is the main course:

1. Trans people believe that the end point of your beliefs is their annihilation

The view of trans people is that to be a friend to trans people, all a person would have to do is accept them for who and what they say they are (Trans men are men, trans women are women...etc). Trans people do not demonstrate against people who accept them. They demonstrate against people that do not. If Julie Bindel came out and said “trans men/women are men/women,” nobody would demonstrate against her on trans issues ever again. They would continue to demonstrate against others.

But if you look at it the other way round...for trans people to become friends with a gender critical person...that trans person would have to give up their sense of self (their gender identity) almost entirely, and they believe that this can and has lead to people dying. You may think this is a histrionic response, but if you look around the gender critical communities, there aims tend to include rolling back legal recognition of trans identities, making it harder to access healthcare and - in some circles- the withdrawal of trans healthcare in its entirety...

Trans people see those aims as attacks on their ability to exist. These are things that trans people believe they CANNOT live without. Whether you agree with it or not, that is how trans people see it. Many trans women would rather die than go back to living as a man. Same with trans men. To trans people, this is about their very existence.

A not insignificant number of trans people use this as a justification to use the tactics of Antifa against certain groups and public speakers. For those of you unfamiliar, Antifa’s aim is to stop the spread of an ideology that will lead to genocide. Hitler and Mussolini started their fascist movements with less than a hundred people each, so Antifa look to nip fascism in the bud before it can bloom because fascism ALWAYS ends in genocide if left unchecked. There is no other destination for fascism than violence, and so they attempt to no-platform Milo, they get Daily Stormer’s hosting suspended, they protest Katie Hopkins....

Many trans people do not see you as fascists. But they do see you are potentially just as dangerous. They are scared that if you were to ever achieve your aims, trans people’s lives would be in danger.

Do they think that this will lead to death camps co-ordinated by FairPlay for Women? No. It is like I said before: they fear the removal of their ability to be themselves, which is essentially, death.

As you will know, it was Janice Raymond’s recommendations to the Reagan administration that resulted in the total withdrawal of trans healthcare from Medicare and Medicaid in the 1980’s. I mention this because some of you will be thinking that this is a totally irrational response and no gender critical people want to eradicate trans people. But this move did hurt thousands of trans people in the United States and it has been read by the trans community as a violent attack on their existence.

This is why trans people protest the meetings. This is why they work to no-platform people. They see it as self defence in a fight that could end with their death.

I know many of you will be thinking that they see it the same way, that the trans movement’s logical end point is the end and total erasure of biological womanhood.

You believing that does not cancel out how the trans community views you. Whether you agree or disagree with this assessment, this is how they see it.

1. The deciding factor is not the fact that you are a woman or a lesbian: it is that you speak out against trans people.

As mentioned in my first point, trans people do not protest women who are campaigning for reproductive rights, or women who go to the shops or women who play football.

They speak out against people who speak out against them.

I see the argument thrown around a lot that trans people want to “silence women” and this is not what trans rights activists are aiming to do. Nobody tries to no-platform Julie Bindel because she is a working class lesbian. Working class lesbians campaign and speak out on a number of issues and trans people do not protest them. Julie Bindel’s sex, sexuality and class are not the reasons trans people show up to shut her down.

Her views on trans people are the reason. Her articles arguing that trans women are men and therefore are dangerous, are the triggers that cause a pushback.

So why are these women’s groups the focus of trans activists? Why not Christian groups? Or the far right? Because trans issues are not those group’s sole focus. These groups, when they do get airtime, and do hold meetings, are not solely discussing trans rights.

If Christian splinter groups were forming with names like “God Doesn’t Make Mistakes” or such like things, and were getting media buzz on anywhere the same level, trans activists would be there too. Trans activists were there to protest Milo, the cross over between Antifa and trans activists is not insignificant because fascism would not leave trans people alone. To claim that the trans community targets women because they are women is missing the point.

1. Trans activism is more than Antifa tactics.

Trans activists take many forms. Some make support groups, others lobby MPs, some write, some paint, some tweet, I met one trans person who advocated for trans rights through dance. Whilst fighting back against gender critical voices is absolutely one big aspect of trans activism, the scene is so much bigger and with so many aims. This is important to remember, if for no other reason than when you look to respond, that you do not oversimplify the community .

And that is that. I want to reiterate why I have told you all of this. I am not here to argue that you are wrong, or that trans women are women or whatever. I came here to explain the ideology behind the protests and fight back. I sincerely hope this informs how you understand the trans rights movement. You may see this as me justifying abhorrent behaviour. That was never my aim. My aim was to inform how trans activists think - good and bad - in VERY broad strokes.

Thank you for reading, thank you for keeping an open mind.

I found that quite chilling.

Why oh why does this person think there is a difference between women and lesbians? Pretty sure (last time I checked) all lesbians are women. [dying of laughter]

Thats the biggest pile of bollocks i have read in quite some time.

What a waste of your time OP.

Started reading but then saw it was the usual bunch of strawmen with the OP completely ignoring what women are actually saying.

I'm not sure this has helped the AWA cause. It paints the picture of trans people as over-the-top delusionists.

1. Trans people believe that the end point of your beliefs is their annihilation

Annihilation? Seriously?

How self indulgent and patronising!
Thanks for outlining those "rules" and opening up "discussion" ha!
That's not really how it works.
The telling people how it is and then not engaging in any sort of discussion smacks of male privilege.

Erm - transpeople exist whether I think they change sex or not. But if giving up your identity = death (drama llama ) the what about OUR identities, given the takeover of 'woman' and 'female'? You're not the only one here you know. Other people matter too.

"I mean, I'm not saying that you're fascists with an end goal of genocide...I'm just not not saying that you're fascists with an end goal of genocide".

Fun fact, OP. Most feminists started out allies and it was the bullying rhetoric and utter inability to compromise from the trans rights side that led women to walk back from that. You've got your basic premise of who is defending their rights from attack by another group arse about face.

It's just really sad that again and again, the many people who do thus quick-flit-in saying they will never come back to read replies say something like this:

Many trans women would rather die than go back to living as a man.

• ie when they hear the suggestion that biology is a real fact, they hear that as meaning that feminists think they ought to go back to dressing and acting in a masculine manner. I so wish that the OP would come back and hear this but know they never will. This is the tragedy of the conflict and why it has become so bitter - #nodebate means that the feminist position is constantly misrepresentated, over and over, as saying that feminists want gender to be fixed/dictated by the state rather than wanting everyone to be liberated from the restrictions of gender.

If men and women are wholly human and equal in all respects with no restrictions on potential based on their genital shape then there can be no incongruity or upset from anyone when someone born male chooses to dress in a traditionally feminine manner, and there would be no need to lie about biological facts because those facts have no implication on anything other than whether or not one produces donor- or receptor-type gametes in reproduction, which then has implications for the type of health care testing and monitoring one needs.

The other side of this coin is that the OP claims that it would cost us nothing to admit that transwomen are women. In fact it would cost us everything and destroy the whole concept of feminism/equality of the sexes. Saying that transwomen are women means that rather than both being equal, men and women must be fundamentally different in personality, character and capabilities, confirming and entrenching gender stereotypes. Many women would rather die than accept this "othering" of half the human species.

I haven't bothered to read the OP as they've said upfront that they won't bother to read our replies. So that's a really useful conversation.

From some of the replies the gist of it seems to be if only you'd capitulate we wouldn't have to fight you. So no. No.

I'd actually love to see the transactivists advocating for trans people through the medium of dance though I can only imagine the self indulgent symbolism of the downtrodden transperson trying to break through and pirouette over woman's rights.

Yeah but come on everyone...

This is a perfect way to say "look, we tried! We were so nice and reasonable and they just want our ANNIHILATION!". I expect the links have already been circulated for tweeting/tumblr-ing purposes.

It's like really bad poetry, you feel like laughing while it's happening and then you just feel a bit for the twat who write such self-indulgent up themselves twaddle.

The medium of interpretive dance really tickled me too

I think it’s interesting the cries of defeating fascism come from people who live in countries who have had no fascist regimes and were born 50ish years after ww2, who say without irony that if you do not toe the party line you are an enemy.

Trans people believe that the end point of your beliefs is their annihilation

Ladies, we’ve been discovered. Out secret feminist ninja training camps are under threat. We’ve had to change all the passwords.

The new secret code is: The Bunbury does the haka in the paddock. I repeat, The Bunbury does the haka in the paddock. Pass it on.

We’ve ramped up the suffrajitsu training and the first flying squads will be ready to deploy biscuits and cups of tea before Christmas.

Wow. Hyperbole and propaganda all in one (presumably floral-scented) dump.

FFS. I can't believe I got myself all excited at the prospect of someone coming along and maybe, for once, being able to explain their side in an articulate manner (I'm open to it, I really am). Instead we get the usual hyperbolic clap trap. No dude, you can't make me see you as a woman. Whatever you say. To do that is to participate in the annihilation of women.

Blah, blah, blah, you just have to do exactly what you are told and we will leave you alone......

I support you @OneTimeThing

I hope you can ignore the nonsense that congregates on this site

You. Just. Don't. Get. It.

And just dropping a grenade in and running? Not cool.

What would've been really good would've actually to have been able to have an informed discussion with an actual transwoman. Instead, you've just given your view, as usual, without even bothering to try and understand where other views are coming from and why.

"Once this is posted, I will not return to Mumsnet to answer questions or respond in any other ways"

I'm not reading any more then.

Once this is posted, I will not return to Mumsnet to answer questions or respond in any other ways

Why are people so rude?

Ive seen that spelling mistake of ‘alterior’ for ulterior recently on these boards I think? I can’t remember where/who by though

So much bullshit in one post. Is the a prize for that? And the utter arrogance of the poster to say they won't be back is staggering. Especially as we all know they are reading it now. Pathetic.

I think the admins should close the commenting for this thread. Completely pointless and a bit pathetic to be honest. Forum = discussion...