The ethos of trans activism (thoughts of a trans woman)

[OneTimeThing]

Full disclosure, I am a transgender woman. I am a parent. I have been involved in activism to varying levels (mostly on the periphery) and I have tried my best to follow the rules of this forum. I urge you to read this entire post, but will not be offended (or even know) if you don’t.

I am under no illusions, I know what what this board is about but I am not here to change minds. My aim is to effectively communicate the ethos and philosophy of the current trans rights movement as I understand it, and dispel myths. I am not at any point expecting people to agree with the ethos and aims (although I can’t lie, that would make me delighted beyond words) but I hope that at least some of you will have a better understanding of what drives the trans rights movement after reading this.

First, some caveats

1. I cannot represent the entire trans rights movement (hell, I am barely. involved, I have children and live in the middle of knowhere). We are so incredibly diverse that nobody ever could. This is not a message from the trans community or the trans rights movement (these are two distinct things, btw). This is my attempt to explain a common outlook amongst the trans activist community, as I understand it.
2. Once this is posted, I will not return to Mumsnet to answer questions or respond in any other ways. I know this will be read as me not being able to defend “my” positions or that I am here to lecture, condescend, demean or “transplain” to you...but this is not about me or my views. I want to get the facts - as I understand them - to you with as little of myself in this as possible. If I stayed and engaged with your points, eventually this would become about me, which is not the point. Also, I understand this is your space, and I do not want to overstay my welcome anymore than I already am by posting this.
3. I know some of you will never listen to anything I have to say. That is okay. I do not expect or feel entitled to anyone’s attention. If this dies with nobody reading it, fine, if hundreds of you read it, also fine. I will never know either way.
4. As I mentioned in (1), I cannot represent the entire trans community, nor can I answer for everything the trans community does. We are not a monolith. I am here to talk in broad strokes. Yes, some trans people are idiots. Yes, some trans people post awful things on social media. I hope you can take what I am saying in good faith and not use a 14 year old’s tumblr post about how the term “breast milk” is transphobic as an excuse to trash this entire post.
5. Please believe me. These are things that - I believe - very broadly unite most trans activists. They believe these things, and to a certain extent, I do too. These are not lies to justify some alterior motive. Please believe me.
6. I hope you can keep an open mind, even if you believe that the “other side” is incapable of keeping an open mind about your points. Please don’t use the flaws (perceived or real) of the “other side” as an excuse to sink to their level.

Okay, here is the main course:

1. Trans people believe that the end point of your beliefs is their annihilation

The view of trans people is that to be a friend to trans people, all a person would have to do is accept them for who and what they say they are (Trans men are men, trans women are women...etc). Trans people do not demonstrate against people who accept them. They demonstrate against people that do not. If Julie Bindel came out and said “trans men/women are men/women,” nobody would demonstrate against her on trans issues ever again. They would continue to demonstrate against others.

But if you look at it the other way round...for trans people to become friends with a gender critical person...that trans person would have to give up their sense of self (their gender identity) almost entirely, and they believe that this can and has lead to people dying. You may think this is a histrionic response, but if you look around the gender critical communities, there aims tend to include rolling back legal recognition of trans identities, making it harder to access healthcare and - in some circles- the withdrawal of trans healthcare in its entirety...

Trans people see those aims as attacks on their ability to exist. These are things that trans people believe they CANNOT live without. Whether you agree with it or not, that is how trans people see it. Many trans women would rather die than go back to living as a man. Same with trans men. To trans people, this is about their very existence.

A not insignificant number of trans people use this as a justification to use the tactics of Antifa against certain groups and public speakers. For those of you unfamiliar, Antifa’s aim is to stop the spread of an ideology that will lead to genocide. Hitler and Mussolini started their fascist movements with less than a hundred people each, so Antifa look to nip fascism in the bud before it can bloom because fascism ALWAYS ends in genocide if left unchecked. There is no other destination for fascism than violence, and so they attempt to no-platform Milo, they get Daily Stormer’s hosting suspended, they protest Katie Hopkins....

Many trans people do not see you as fascists. But they do see you are potentially just as dangerous. They are scared that if you were to ever achieve your aims, trans people’s lives would be in danger.

Do they think that this will lead to death camps co-ordinated by FairPlay for Women? No. It is like I said before: they fear the removal of their ability to be themselves, which is essentially, death.

As you will know, it was Janice Raymond’s recommendations to the Reagan administration that resulted in the total withdrawal of trans healthcare from Medicare and Medicaid in the 1980’s. I mention this because some of you will be thinking that this is a totally irrational response and no gender critical people want to eradicate trans people. But this move did hurt thousands of trans people in the United States and it has been read by the trans community as a violent attack on their existence.

This is why trans people protest the meetings. This is why they work to no-platform people. They see it as self defence in a fight that could end with their death.

I know many of you will be thinking that they see it the same way, that the trans movement’s logical end point is the end and total erasure of biological womanhood.

You believing that does not cancel out how the trans community views you. Whether you agree or disagree with this assessment, this is how they see it.

1. The deciding factor is not the fact that you are a woman or a lesbian: it is that you speak out against trans people.

As mentioned in my first point, trans people do not protest women who are campaigning for reproductive rights, or women who go to the shops or women who play football.

They speak out against people who speak out against them.

I see the argument thrown around a lot that trans people want to “silence women” and this is not what trans rights activists are aiming to do. Nobody tries to no-platform Julie Bindel because she is a working class lesbian. Working class lesbians campaign and speak out on a number of issues and trans people do not protest them. Julie Bindel’s sex, sexuality and class are not the reasons trans people show up to shut her down.

Her views on trans people are the reason. Her articles arguing that trans women are men and therefore are dangerous, are the triggers that cause a pushback.

So why are these women’s groups the focus of trans activists? Why not Christian groups? Or the far right? Because trans issues are not those group’s sole focus. These groups, when they do get airtime, and do hold meetings, are not solely discussing trans rights.

If Christian splinter groups were forming with names like “God Doesn’t Make Mistakes” or such like things, and were getting media buzz on anywhere the same level, trans activists would be there too. Trans activists were there to protest Milo, the cross over between Antifa and trans activists is not insignificant because fascism would not leave trans people alone. To claim that the trans community targets women because they are women is missing the point.

1. Trans activism is more than Antifa tactics.

Trans activists take many forms. Some make support groups, others lobby MPs, some write, some paint, some tweet, I met one trans person who advocated for trans rights through dance. Whilst fighting back against gender critical voices is absolutely one big aspect of trans activism, the scene is so much bigger and with so many aims. This is important to remember, if for no other reason than when you look to respond, that you do not oversimplify the community .

And that is that. I want to reiterate why I have told you all of this. I am not here to argue that you are wrong, or that trans women are women or whatever. I came here to explain the ideology behind the protests and fight back. I sincerely hope this informs how you understand the trans rights movement. You may see this as me justifying abhorrent behaviour. That was never my aim. My aim was to inform how trans activists think - good and bad - in VERY broad strokes.

Thank you for reading, thank you for keeping an open mind.

OP you are fucking insane - but thanks for the absolute textbook example of male violence with a sprinkling of delusion on top.

Most TRA are very young men, even teenagers....full of hormones and post pubescent aggressive 'male' energy - desperately in search of an outlet or activity. Most will be gay; many quite 'feminine' in their appearance or mannerisms, and will have young female friends who support them, as most gay men & boys tend to.

I gave up after the first two paragraphs...

It's still a from me

My aim is to effectively communicate the ethos and philosophy of the current trans rights movement as I understand it, and dispel myths.

I don't care what it is. I wouldn't give a single solitary thought to trans people if the word 'woman' wasn't being erased, along with the reality of womanhood, and if men weren't trying to move into women's safe spaces.

I care about animal rights. I rage at what the Dalits have to contend with. I care about child victims of sex abuse, and females being trafficked. I don't give a fuck about men who are annoyed that other people aren't validating their identity.

thanks for the absolute textbook example of male violence

Writing a waffling, patronising post on Mumsnet is not violence. We laugh at trans activists who say that it's violence when we disagree with them. Let's not do the exact same thing.

Oh thanks, you've successfully dispelled all myths and really defined the ethos and philosophy - 'agree with our delusion or fuck you, play nice or we'll actually die of rejection from you'. That about sums it up, you could have saved a fair bit of typing, mind. You need help, OP.

Lisa Muggeridge in her videos is brilliant about TRA narcs and their false identities, I'm paraphrasing but she says something like:

abusive males who create a false identity for themselves, the idealised false identity requires an object onto which they project the things they don't like about themselves

Basically they tell you everything you need to know about themselves by projecting it onto other people.

sounds about right.

I've been thinking about having a facelift.

But the OP has given me a new idea. I'll just get the rest of the world lowered.

Same result.

Seems reasonable to me.

My aim is to effectively communicate the ethos and philosophy of the current trans rights movement as I understand it, and dispel myths

I think this is my favourite part. As though we hadn't all had the ethos and philosophy of trans ideology smothered all over everything for ages. And further, that by 'dispelling myths' the OP would enforce the widely held impression that AWAs are sneering bullies with a very tenuous connection to basic reason and reality.

Thank fuck I can speed read. I’d hate to have wasted too much time reading that ‘poor us. We’re nice people and if you’re not a handmaiden, then you’re nit very nice’ drivel. 🙄

The view of trans people is that to be a friend to trans people, all a person would have to do is accept them for who and what they say they are (Trans men are men, trans women are women...etc). Trans people do not demonstrate against people who accept them. They demonstrate against people that do not.

All we have to do is lie, then.

You're missing the point, OP. GC women are happy for you to express whatever 'gender identity' you like. Dress however you want to. Like the things you like.

We just think that the way to do that is by smashing gender stereotypes, not reifying them. You are not a woman because you like things that are culturally-coded feminine. You are not a woman because of some ineffable feeling shared by all women. You are not a woman because God made all souls pink and blue and accidentally put one in a mismatched body. These beliefs are oppressive towards women and we do not support them.

The language around annihilation, eradication and fascism just seems absolutely absurd to me. Disagreeing with you is not the same as trying to destroy you, no more than me saying 'I don't believe in God' is an attempt to 'annihilate' Christians. Anyone who actually feels suicidal because a feminist told them they cannot literally become the opposite sex needs urgent mental health support, and silencing the feminist won't make the MH issues go away.

Okay, full disclosure here. I managed to read about 30 words, then my eyes glazed over, refused to focus on the screen and my mind wandered to whether I wanted baked beans or spaghetti on toast for lunch.

I should have clarified that I'm speaking about the OP in my post.

All the suicide talk if someone says boo - it's a pain in the hole. When I lived in London during an IRA bombing campaign I never opened my mouth when I was out and about, made sure I had the exact change, pointed at things, anything to avoid speaking. Because once my Irish accent was heard I'd get a face-full of abuse, as if I was personally responsible for every atrocity.

As I could avoid abuse and discrimination - apart from in work - I used to imagine what it would be like to be black, where racists could identify you as a legitimate target immediately, and go on the attack. Yet I don't see black people saying 'we'll all commit suicide'. They have to deal with it as best they can, no matter how hurtful it is, like any other group that's disliked by the majority.

Only men who CHOOSE to make themselves stand out as being different get to pull all that emotional bullying.

Op I have just danced my response to you here in my living room. You're going to have to imagine it since I can't fully express the glory of it in words but it made my cat cry. I only fell over twice.

Yeah male violence - a full on tantrum, this is what I say therefore it is true believe it or else. That’s exactly how it works.

Thanks for nearly making me spit tea all over my monitor gendercritter .

I mean, I wasn't going to go there, but.....

You're laughing at what was a very sincere performance Hamster I feel erased, nay annihilated

Quaffs wine.

I appreciate the time and effort to reach out and clearly state the position.

However, who we believe ourselves to be is not always the reality of the situation. Pretending otherwise does not help anyone, especially when it negatively affects an entire sex class. Living a life that requires the validation of others is unhealthy and leads to unhappiness as you cannot control how others perceive you.

There are people with gender dysphoria who manage without hormones or surgery. There are transsexuals who are aware of the reality of their sex.

If trans people are afraid they won't exist unless they legally become women/men they can apply for a GRC. We already have a route available.

We are afraid that we won't exist too...allowing any man to identity as a woman puts us in REAL, physical danger.

"The view of trans people is that to be a friend to trans people, all a person would have to do is accept them for who and what they say they are"

How does anyone have the nerve to write something like this?

How does that work in every other situation?

What if who you are is a criminal? A predator? A bully?

You're telling people that you will continue to target them unless they do what you say. You're completely open about it.

And you wonder why women want to maintain their woman only space.

I understand this is your space, and I do not want to overstay my welcome …

If only … !

If you claim to be a woman, then you would understand and support us. Many transexuals do just that and we find common ground.

If you don't support women's position, but see it as hateful and dangerous, then you are an imposter.

Invisible1234 just playing devil's advocate, but what purpose does a GRC serve now, when there are new marriage rights and civil partnerships available? You don't need a GRC to change your name, your DWP records, IR records, passport, driving license or anything else that government/legal entities require.

Inheritance rights, parental rights, pensions (apart from Widow's pension iirc) aren't affected now. Its only "real" use is for a birth certificate amendment.

The vast majority of "day to day" activities and "dealings" with people don't require one. I'd go as far to say as it's not actually fit for purpose and its current form and needs to be either seriously overhauled or dispensed with whatsoever.

I'm a really fast reader but I lost the will to continue after OP said they weren't coming back.

However the comments have been entertaining. Your cat must have nerves of steel, gendercritter. If I tried to enact my feelings through the medium of dance mine would be out through the catflap in 30 seconds.

And I was particularly struck by this from Hamster:

NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY on these boards, Twitter, FPFW, WP, Posie, Venice or anyone else is advocating the "removal" of anyone's ability to be themselves. NOBODY is even suggesting the "extermination" of trans women. You don't get it....this is about the "extermination" of WOMEN'S RIGHTS not ours.

The fact that this post was 50% (maybe more) devoted to explaining exactly HOW we should read and understand it rendered the rest of it unreadable. How on earth are we supposed to remain open minded, if we have already been told how we should approach what you are saying.

Indeed.