The ethos of trans activism (thoughts of a trans woman)

[OneTimeThing]

Full disclosure, I am a transgender woman. I am a parent. I have been involved in activism to varying levels (mostly on the periphery) and I have tried my best to follow the rules of this forum. I urge you to read this entire post, but will not be offended (or even know) if you don’t.

I am under no illusions, I know what what this board is about but I am not here to change minds. My aim is to effectively communicate the ethos and philosophy of the current trans rights movement as I understand it, and dispel myths. I am not at any point expecting people to agree with the ethos and aims (although I can’t lie, that would make me delighted beyond words) but I hope that at least some of you will have a better understanding of what drives the trans rights movement after reading this.

First, some caveats

1. I cannot represent the entire trans rights movement (hell, I am barely. involved, I have children and live in the middle of knowhere). We are so incredibly diverse that nobody ever could. This is not a message from the trans community or the trans rights movement (these are two distinct things, btw). This is my attempt to explain a common outlook amongst the trans activist community, as I understand it.
2. Once this is posted, I will not return to Mumsnet to answer questions or respond in any other ways. I know this will be read as me not being able to defend “my” positions or that I am here to lecture, condescend, demean or “transplain” to you...but this is not about me or my views. I want to get the facts - as I understand them - to you with as little of myself in this as possible. If I stayed and engaged with your points, eventually this would become about me, which is not the point. Also, I understand this is your space, and I do not want to overstay my welcome anymore than I already am by posting this.
3. I know some of you will never listen to anything I have to say. That is okay. I do not expect or feel entitled to anyone’s attention. If this dies with nobody reading it, fine, if hundreds of you read it, also fine. I will never know either way.
4. As I mentioned in (1), I cannot represent the entire trans community, nor can I answer for everything the trans community does. We are not a monolith. I am here to talk in broad strokes. Yes, some trans people are idiots. Yes, some trans people post awful things on social media. I hope you can take what I am saying in good faith and not use a 14 year old’s tumblr post about how the term “breast milk” is transphobic as an excuse to trash this entire post.
5. Please believe me. These are things that - I believe - very broadly unite most trans activists. They believe these things, and to a certain extent, I do too. These are not lies to justify some alterior motive. Please believe me.
6. I hope you can keep an open mind, even if you believe that the “other side” is incapable of keeping an open mind about your points. Please don’t use the flaws (perceived or real) of the “other side” as an excuse to sink to their level.

Okay, here is the main course:

1. Trans people believe that the end point of your beliefs is their annihilation

The view of trans people is that to be a friend to trans people, all a person would have to do is accept them for who and what they say they are (Trans men are men, trans women are women...etc). Trans people do not demonstrate against people who accept them. They demonstrate against people that do not. If Julie Bindel came out and said “trans men/women are men/women,” nobody would demonstrate against her on trans issues ever again. They would continue to demonstrate against others.

But if you look at it the other way round...for trans people to become friends with a gender critical person...that trans person would have to give up their sense of self (their gender identity) almost entirely, and they believe that this can and has lead to people dying. You may think this is a histrionic response, but if you look around the gender critical communities, there aims tend to include rolling back legal recognition of trans identities, making it harder to access healthcare and - in some circles- the withdrawal of trans healthcare in its entirety...

Trans people see those aims as attacks on their ability to exist. These are things that trans people believe they CANNOT live without. Whether you agree with it or not, that is how trans people see it. Many trans women would rather die than go back to living as a man. Same with trans men. To trans people, this is about their very existence.

A not insignificant number of trans people use this as a justification to use the tactics of Antifa against certain groups and public speakers. For those of you unfamiliar, Antifa’s aim is to stop the spread of an ideology that will lead to genocide. Hitler and Mussolini started their fascist movements with less than a hundred people each, so Antifa look to nip fascism in the bud before it can bloom because fascism ALWAYS ends in genocide if left unchecked. There is no other destination for fascism than violence, and so they attempt to no-platform Milo, they get Daily Stormer’s hosting suspended, they protest Katie Hopkins....

Many trans people do not see you as fascists. But they do see you are potentially just as dangerous. They are scared that if you were to ever achieve your aims, trans people’s lives would be in danger.

Do they think that this will lead to death camps co-ordinated by FairPlay for Women? No. It is like I said before: they fear the removal of their ability to be themselves, which is essentially, death.

As you will know, it was Janice Raymond’s recommendations to the Reagan administration that resulted in the total withdrawal of trans healthcare from Medicare and Medicaid in the 1980’s. I mention this because some of you will be thinking that this is a totally irrational response and no gender critical people want to eradicate trans people. But this move did hurt thousands of trans people in the United States and it has been read by the trans community as a violent attack on their existence.

This is why trans people protest the meetings. This is why they work to no-platform people. They see it as self defence in a fight that could end with their death.

I know many of you will be thinking that they see it the same way, that the trans movement’s logical end point is the end and total erasure of biological womanhood.

You believing that does not cancel out how the trans community views you. Whether you agree or disagree with this assessment, this is how they see it.

1. The deciding factor is not the fact that you are a woman or a lesbian: it is that you speak out against trans people.

As mentioned in my first point, trans people do not protest women who are campaigning for reproductive rights, or women who go to the shops or women who play football.

They speak out against people who speak out against them.

I see the argument thrown around a lot that trans people want to “silence women” and this is not what trans rights activists are aiming to do. Nobody tries to no-platform Julie Bindel because she is a working class lesbian. Working class lesbians campaign and speak out on a number of issues and trans people do not protest them. Julie Bindel’s sex, sexuality and class are not the reasons trans people show up to shut her down.

Her views on trans people are the reason. Her articles arguing that trans women are men and therefore are dangerous, are the triggers that cause a pushback.

So why are these women’s groups the focus of trans activists? Why not Christian groups? Or the far right? Because trans issues are not those group’s sole focus. These groups, when they do get airtime, and do hold meetings, are not solely discussing trans rights.

If Christian splinter groups were forming with names like “God Doesn’t Make Mistakes” or such like things, and were getting media buzz on anywhere the same level, trans activists would be there too. Trans activists were there to protest Milo, the cross over between Antifa and trans activists is not insignificant because fascism would not leave trans people alone. To claim that the trans community targets women because they are women is missing the point.

1. Trans activism is more than Antifa tactics.

Trans activists take many forms. Some make support groups, others lobby MPs, some write, some paint, some tweet, I met one trans person who advocated for trans rights through dance. Whilst fighting back against gender critical voices is absolutely one big aspect of trans activism, the scene is so much bigger and with so many aims. This is important to remember, if for no other reason than when you look to respond, that you do not oversimplify the community .

And that is that. I want to reiterate why I have told you all of this. I am not here to argue that you are wrong, or that trans women are women or whatever. I came here to explain the ideology behind the protests and fight back. I sincerely hope this informs how you understand the trans rights movement. You may see this as me justifying abhorrent behaviour. That was never my aim. My aim was to inform how trans activists think - good and bad - in VERY broad strokes.

Thank you for reading, thank you for keeping an open mind.

to set such store by other people’s opinions of you, which realistically you will never be able to control.

This is so true. It's so much about power. The yearning to bend everyone to your will.

Prawn - nerves of steel indeed. My cat legged it just at my loud guffaw reading critter's post :D

If you are reading OP, thank-you for your time posting although I have to say it has not changed my stance. Many of us have a strong desire, or passion, to be something we are not. If we could convince others to agree, and believe in our delusions, it would make our lives so much more complete and happier. But none of us have that power.

'...for trans people to become friends with a gender critical person...that trans gender critical person would have to give up their sense of self ...'

Fixed that for you, OP.

(You say, women only have to accept trans people for what they say they are for everything to be just peachy. Unfortunately, that requires women to give up their own identity (and, potentially, their precarious safety). Can you not see the hypocrisy of that? Or why it is an issue?

Thought not)

You reported my post op

I must have hurt your feelzz
Sorry about that not sorry

But you can still have my

❤️❤️❤️

It's not anything we haven't heard before. However the aim is not to deny transpeople their existence, but to ensure women and childrens rights and safety are upheld. Of course there are plenty of decent transwomen who want the same thing, but other transwomen clearly do not. And here lies the problem. If the activists simply understood and acknowledged this significant problem then at least we would having a starting point to try and resolve the issues. But whilst there is a risk that abusive male bodied people will exploit self ID, we will continue to fight it.

I can’t think of any instance where acknowledging reality lead to someone’s “annihilation.”

Biological sex is a physical reality, not a feeling. No one can change sex. Transwomen are not women and trans men are not men. These are the facts, this is reality.

I will not deny reality. My refusal to deny reality “annihilates” no one.

Annihilation is a strong word.

Is saying "sorry, mate, your dick means you're not the same as me" really going to obliterate you?

Just how fragile are you?

What a load of self indulgent pish.

I think that the reasons the OP doesn’t want to come back and debate this properly is that they can’t come back. This is because they actually didn’t write the OP, but cut and pasted it from somewhere, therefore, they cannot debate as they don’t actually have the arguments or the intellect to deal with the awesome women of FWR!

OP, I really do appreciate your time and obvious effort to come on here and explain your POV. I think it would have been better to stay around and discuss, but hey.

That said, I think your essay only illustrates the yawning chasm between what you appear to understand us nasty feminists want and say, and what we ACTUALLY want and say. You have misunderstood us. And shit, nobody here wants your 'annihilation' - FFS - but we and most people Out There would utterly reject the concept that disagreement=literal violence. That's not how debate and getting along in a civilised society works, OP. Not by stamping your feet, threatening suicide if we don't immediately affirm and agree and smooth over. There is a massive historical and social precedent for women being expected to be 'nice' and smooth things over, at their expense, discomfort or disadvantage. Do you understand why we no longer want to do this?'

OP might just be off "literally shaking" somewhere. Hopefully in a nice sunny garden or something, where they can recuperate from their brief descent into the lion's den of DISRESPECTFUL WOMEN.

Holding fragile beliefs tends to make one fragile.

bloom have you ever tried egg on beans on cheese on toast? I strongly recommend it.

1 - Trans women are trans women, not actual women, I'm trans and know there is a world of a difference.
2 - Why even make the post? Due to the actions of certain TRA's we are actively hated with a burning passion by the other forum members here,
The statement that TWAW will only have peoples backs up, there can be no middle ground until those that claim it to be truth drop this absurd claim to borrow a quote it's biology not bigotry.
I would love to see the bitter hateful posts from those with different views stop and reach a common ground but it never will. So long as some claim to be lesbian despite full working penis and others claiming we are just queuing up to see them and their daughters unchange/pee etc, It is hurtful to see ourselves painted as deranged rapists but coming on here will achieve nothing but further harden GC stance against your everyday low profile transwoman.

OP, I really do appreciate your time and obvious effort to come on here and explain your POV. I think it would have been better to stay around and discuss, but hey.

I don't appreciate any of it.

It's self indulgence ego massaging.

The only point of the thread was to tell the nasty women to shut up knowing full well the reaction it would actually get. Instead of changing anything, it's just validation of the 'poor me complex' . So they can show mates, and go 'look how mean they are and how they don't listen to me'.

Meh.

I got that t-shirt. I just don't give a fuck anymore what any trans activist thinks of me.

I tried a long time ago, and just got treated like a bloody doormat. All for trying to be nice. Except respect is a two way street.

Why anyone thinks they are going to get any respect after posting a bunch of crap and then going 'but lalala I'm not going to see what you've all said in response anyway'.

Nothing I - nor anyone here - will do will ever be good enough anyway.

I have now got an equal opportunities bull shit detector. I don't suffer this kind of crap from anyone else, why should I start because they happen to be trans?

I'd love to know.

Mansplaining! Or is it transplaining if a transwoman does it?

That post is the manliest male post I've seen in a long time on here. Almost on a par with the 'here's how to please your man and keep him, ladeez' posts that we sometimes see from delusional men on the relationships forum.

Transwomen are women - until they use their male-born privilege to come onto majority-female forums and mansplain serious issues to the little ladies who just don't know what they're talking about.

And then to top it off, they walk away and refuse to engage in debate.

I am endlessly impressed by how male-privileged the behavior of transwomen is. It's the best of both worlds - keep the male arrogance and attitude, while using the usual trans sob story to get support from misguided lefties and invade women's spaces.

HorribleTranny, sorry what? I am quite capable of separating TRAs from the average person trying to live their life, and even then don't actively hate anyone, thanks. Is it not okay to want to talk without actually having to hate the person at 'the other side'?!

I hope you can keep an open mind

You said this OP, but you don't really believe it. An open mind allows us to consider the statement "transwomen are women" and to decide that it isn't true. Not because we're mean annihilating trans haters, but because a man can never be a woman in a biological sense. I have no issue with a man dressing as a woman and living what he believes to be a female life. But don't tell me that you ARE me, that's annihilation.

I suggest that instead of fantasising about being annihilated, you read the works of Carl Rogers. He talks about an internal and external locus of evaluation. All the time you are looking externally you lay yourself open to pain and misery. Your choice.

You're not 'transplaining', you're mansplaining.

HorribleTranny

Every woman on here absolutely understands the difference between men with gender dysphoria (HSTS), AGP individuals and chancers and opportunists.

We don't hate transwomen. We take massive issue with those transactivists who are using men with gender dysphoria as a Trojan horse to push their agenda.

I, and I'm sure everyone here, is perfectly capable of having civil/cordial/warm relationships with transwomen, whilst agreeing they're not women and bemoaning the fact that TRAs have single-handedly ruined the erstwhile 'honour agreement'.

And in other news it’s UK Sausage Week.
No really.

Spasm0dic I like cheese on egg on beans on toast!

Horrible (I'm sure you're not, btw).

Thanks for that, I agree with your first two points completely. Just to point out, though, most of us on here don't and never did hate trans people at all and are not "bitter" people.That is a false narrative.

I'm only speaking for myself here, but I know a great many of us are or have been LGBT supporters and up until very recently considered ourselves trans allies. Being gender-critical (as most feminists naturally would be in any case) is not "hatred" towards trans people, though obviously we may fundamentally disagree about gender.

It's no coincidence that genuine alarm and increasingly, anger began to surface on the GC side when we noticed the behaviour and activities of trans activists. Specifically, the overreach, and specifically the violent misogyny, hatred and utter disdain for the lived experiences of women and girls.

It is beyond hurtful to discover that people many of us supported in the past and trusted treat us and think of us this way and clearly despise us so very much. This goes for trans activists and some of their allies, including some young women and a number of prominent gay men (Peter Tatchell being a case in point.)

There is common ground that can be found, but it will only be with those like yourself who are clear about reality and, as you say, know for example, that biology is not bigotry and that trans women are not the same as women.

But this toxicity HAS entirely come about because of the behaviour of trans activists. The violence hasn't been coming "from both sides" and I'm not on board with the implication in your post that we're all silly bigoted women. There are very good reasons why people have the concerns they do. I'd put a lot of those concerns at the door of Stonewall and its widened trans umbrella, rather than at the feet of GC people.