The ethos of trans activism (thoughts of a trans woman)

[OneTimeThing]

Full disclosure, I am a transgender woman. I am a parent. I have been involved in activism to varying levels (mostly on the periphery) and I have tried my best to follow the rules of this forum. I urge you to read this entire post, but will not be offended (or even know) if you don’t.

I am under no illusions, I know what what this board is about but I am not here to change minds. My aim is to effectively communicate the ethos and philosophy of the current trans rights movement as I understand it, and dispel myths. I am not at any point expecting people to agree with the ethos and aims (although I can’t lie, that would make me delighted beyond words) but I hope that at least some of you will have a better understanding of what drives the trans rights movement after reading this.

First, some caveats

1. I cannot represent the entire trans rights movement (hell, I am barely. involved, I have children and live in the middle of knowhere). We are so incredibly diverse that nobody ever could. This is not a message from the trans community or the trans rights movement (these are two distinct things, btw). This is my attempt to explain a common outlook amongst the trans activist community, as I understand it.
2. Once this is posted, I will not return to Mumsnet to answer questions or respond in any other ways. I know this will be read as me not being able to defend “my” positions or that I am here to lecture, condescend, demean or “transplain” to you...but this is not about me or my views. I want to get the facts - as I understand them - to you with as little of myself in this as possible. If I stayed and engaged with your points, eventually this would become about me, which is not the point. Also, I understand this is your space, and I do not want to overstay my welcome anymore than I already am by posting this.
3. I know some of you will never listen to anything I have to say. That is okay. I do not expect or feel entitled to anyone’s attention. If this dies with nobody reading it, fine, if hundreds of you read it, also fine. I will never know either way.
4. As I mentioned in (1), I cannot represent the entire trans community, nor can I answer for everything the trans community does. We are not a monolith. I am here to talk in broad strokes. Yes, some trans people are idiots. Yes, some trans people post awful things on social media. I hope you can take what I am saying in good faith and not use a 14 year old’s tumblr post about how the term “breast milk” is transphobic as an excuse to trash this entire post.
5. Please believe me. These are things that - I believe - very broadly unite most trans activists. They believe these things, and to a certain extent, I do too. These are not lies to justify some alterior motive. Please believe me.
6. I hope you can keep an open mind, even if you believe that the “other side” is incapable of keeping an open mind about your points. Please don’t use the flaws (perceived or real) of the “other side” as an excuse to sink to their level.

Okay, here is the main course:

1. Trans people believe that the end point of your beliefs is their annihilation

The view of trans people is that to be a friend to trans people, all a person would have to do is accept them for who and what they say they are (Trans men are men, trans women are women...etc). Trans people do not demonstrate against people who accept them. They demonstrate against people that do not. If Julie Bindel came out and said “trans men/women are men/women,” nobody would demonstrate against her on trans issues ever again. They would continue to demonstrate against others.

But if you look at it the other way round...for trans people to become friends with a gender critical person...that trans person would have to give up their sense of self (their gender identity) almost entirely, and they believe that this can and has lead to people dying. You may think this is a histrionic response, but if you look around the gender critical communities, there aims tend to include rolling back legal recognition of trans identities, making it harder to access healthcare and - in some circles- the withdrawal of trans healthcare in its entirety...

Trans people see those aims as attacks on their ability to exist. These are things that trans people believe they CANNOT live without. Whether you agree with it or not, that is how trans people see it. Many trans women would rather die than go back to living as a man. Same with trans men. To trans people, this is about their very existence.

A not insignificant number of trans people use this as a justification to use the tactics of Antifa against certain groups and public speakers. For those of you unfamiliar, Antifa’s aim is to stop the spread of an ideology that will lead to genocide. Hitler and Mussolini started their fascist movements with less than a hundred people each, so Antifa look to nip fascism in the bud before it can bloom because fascism ALWAYS ends in genocide if left unchecked. There is no other destination for fascism than violence, and so they attempt to no-platform Milo, they get Daily Stormer’s hosting suspended, they protest Katie Hopkins....

Many trans people do not see you as fascists. But they do see you are potentially just as dangerous. They are scared that if you were to ever achieve your aims, trans people’s lives would be in danger.

Do they think that this will lead to death camps co-ordinated by FairPlay for Women? No. It is like I said before: they fear the removal of their ability to be themselves, which is essentially, death.

As you will know, it was Janice Raymond’s recommendations to the Reagan administration that resulted in the total withdrawal of trans healthcare from Medicare and Medicaid in the 1980’s. I mention this because some of you will be thinking that this is a totally irrational response and no gender critical people want to eradicate trans people. But this move did hurt thousands of trans people in the United States and it has been read by the trans community as a violent attack on their existence.

This is why trans people protest the meetings. This is why they work to no-platform people. They see it as self defence in a fight that could end with their death.

I know many of you will be thinking that they see it the same way, that the trans movement’s logical end point is the end and total erasure of biological womanhood.

You believing that does not cancel out how the trans community views you. Whether you agree or disagree with this assessment, this is how they see it.

1. The deciding factor is not the fact that you are a woman or a lesbian: it is that you speak out against trans people.

As mentioned in my first point, trans people do not protest women who are campaigning for reproductive rights, or women who go to the shops or women who play football.

They speak out against people who speak out against them.

I see the argument thrown around a lot that trans people want to “silence women” and this is not what trans rights activists are aiming to do. Nobody tries to no-platform Julie Bindel because she is a working class lesbian. Working class lesbians campaign and speak out on a number of issues and trans people do not protest them. Julie Bindel’s sex, sexuality and class are not the reasons trans people show up to shut her down.

Her views on trans people are the reason. Her articles arguing that trans women are men and therefore are dangerous, are the triggers that cause a pushback.

So why are these women’s groups the focus of trans activists? Why not Christian groups? Or the far right? Because trans issues are not those group’s sole focus. These groups, when they do get airtime, and do hold meetings, are not solely discussing trans rights.

If Christian splinter groups were forming with names like “God Doesn’t Make Mistakes” or such like things, and were getting media buzz on anywhere the same level, trans activists would be there too. Trans activists were there to protest Milo, the cross over between Antifa and trans activists is not insignificant because fascism would not leave trans people alone. To claim that the trans community targets women because they are women is missing the point.

1. Trans activism is more than Antifa tactics.

Trans activists take many forms. Some make support groups, others lobby MPs, some write, some paint, some tweet, I met one trans person who advocated for trans rights through dance. Whilst fighting back against gender critical voices is absolutely one big aspect of trans activism, the scene is so much bigger and with so many aims. This is important to remember, if for no other reason than when you look to respond, that you do not oversimplify the community .

And that is that. I want to reiterate why I have told you all of this. I am not here to argue that you are wrong, or that trans women are women or whatever. I came here to explain the ideology behind the protests and fight back. I sincerely hope this informs how you understand the trans rights movement. You may see this as me justifying abhorrent behaviour. That was never my aim. My aim was to inform how trans activists think - good and bad - in VERY broad strokes.

Thank you for reading, thank you for keeping an open mind.

The OP isn't going to respond - but they will be back to read the comments, for sure.

You lost me at annihilation

Ah I see the testicles of pomposity are hard at work

he Bunbury does the haka in the paddock

Snort...

It would be helpful if toomuchtidying could expand on why they support the OP.

In particular, why does recognising the difference between people born with bodies of the type that produce eggs and people born with bodies of the type that produce sperm cause anyone to be 'annihilated'?

It's not as though it is possible to identify out of the consequences of having either body type.

I couldnt say i wouldnt be back to comment...

Just couldnt

Everyone would know damn well i was reading the replies

And then what if i really wanted to add something

But I am reading the replies, which are very informative

Plus I don't believe it. No sane person thinks that feminists want to annihilate trans people.

Or that recognising their sex is genocide. Hundreds and hundreds of transwomen support women. And don't want to be in women's sports or prisons or refuges. Many, if not most men with gender dysphoria just want to be left alone and not be used as a Trojan horse for political point scoring cross dressers.

Apart from anything else, feminist groups are campaigning to keep the law exactly as it is.

Does the OP think the government wants the annihilation of transwomen, and all the people who wrote the equality law?

It's narcissistic, chilling bullies like the OP who propagate this annihilation nonsense.

Contemptible.

God only a (narcissistic) man would write such an excessively long, dogmatic diatribe on a site mainly used by women eh? Can you imagine if I wrote a similarly excessive pist on Pistonhead chastising them for liking Porches and telling them to buy Ford Fiestas instead?

Only a massive, self-absorbed, self-centred, fragile-ego person could write something like that - and I'm atraid the TRA movement does seem to attract them OP.

I double dare you no returns to do that calpop

The strange thing about all this talk of 'annihilation' is that although women have been and are denied all sorts of rights because they are female (whether or not they identify as female), and people have been imprisoned and castrated because they are gay, I can't find any references to anyone being 'annihilated' because they identify as transgender.

😁 or on the train spotting (sorry train enthusiasts) site DP occasionally browses telling them over 8 paragraphs to grow up and stop behaving like little boys....

It’s all a bit “look what you made me do” isn’t it? Usual abusers tactic from a TRA. Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.

It's very telling that the OP thought we wouldn't know why trans activists get so violent. It's a narcissistic injury defense mechanism! They think we are attacking their gender identity, when in reality the whole point is that gender identity is a faith-based claim that cannot be proven. We are talking about SEX (which CAN be proven). Most women on here are also interested in other feminist thought (male violence, female health, etc), so that argument doesn't hold, either.
Personally, I find anyone defending actual fascist tactics in the name of "anti-fascism" so confused as to be dangerous. It's basically like saying the Gulags were "holiday camps." Oh wait, that happened. When you're attacking other people, threatening them, abusing them for not sharing your "correct" views - YOU are the fascist.

Well, this certainly confirms our suspicion that TRAs are occupied with ‘belief’ not reality.

So we are right to consider it as a sexist religion. Entitled to believe what they like, but not entitled to law changes that inflict their beliefs on society.

I've reported this. I don't think plopping should be tolerated.

Anyone else see “I am a transgender woman. I am a parent” as a massive red flag? Sounds rather Caitlin Jenner to me.

I'm happy for the thread to stay in all its delusional glory. Lurkers should be able to read the TRA counter-argument, so eloquently explained.

Materialist
OPs contention that Janice Raymond was responsible for withdrawal of federally funded transition care during the Reagan administration is 200% false

Thank you so much for clarifying this, as it was one other WTF comment from the OP I simply did not believe.

Can I have a biscuit for reading some of it?

Don't you fret hun, we don't want to annihilate you. We just don't subscribe to the same belief system as you.

Trans people are trans people. A small part of your brain/ soul/ feelz doesn't decide biological sex. That's my belief system. I think probably 99% of the world's population agrees with me.

Everyone deserves a peaceful life. There should be more unisex facilities, to help people with gender incongruence. You knock yourselves out mucking around with gender roles. Whatever. Don't care, they are all bollocks anyway. But trans as no different to biological men / women? Nah. Not buying it.

I know you're peeking in. Smiles and waves.

We know what the ‘movement’ is about. We know in broad strokes what trans people think and expect others to think. We disagree.

Hope that helped

I'm very interested in hearing the perspectives of trans women. I can do this by reading trans websites and forums and talking to the trans women I know personally. But this has shades of #nodebate about it. That's just not my bag.

If you post on a discussion forum you stay and discuss. Plenty of people here disagree with me about stuff I post, including on trans issues. I keep posting because I want to discuss things. If I wanted to say my piece without reading replies I'd start a blog.

tenorladybeaker

Great post particularly in response to this comment

Many trans women would rather die than go back to living as a man
ie when they hear the suggestion that biology is a real fact, they hear that as meaning that feminists think they ought to go back to dressing and acting in a masculine manner

What is "living as a man"??
If you are wearing lippy, heels and a lovely outfit in whatever style, call yourself Aimee or whatever, and you have a penis which you use to ejaculate sperm, you ARE living as a man.
You are still living as a man if you are a male who prefers to present with all stereotypically female styles and behaviours and no feminist anywhere, ever would suggest you stop doing that if that's what makes you happy. This makes you transgender. It makes you a transwoman. We happily support the existence of transwomen.

Where we draw the line is accepting that this makes you a woman because nothing "makes you a woman" unless you are of of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) which can be fertilized by male gametes. Transwomen are not women.

No feminist is trying to stop transgender people from expressing themselves as transgender.

Just another 'splainer with a huge wall of text and #nodebate.
Sod off.

Translation:
Our world view is so ridiculously simple that we deal only in black and white thinking. We find it impossible to deal with the idea that its a bit more complicated than that.

Our reaction to that is if we don't get our own way, we interprete this as mummy doesn't love us. And throw the biggest toddler tantrum ever.

Are we supposed to be impressed?