TG day of remembrance

[WomanAndProud]

When did 20 November become the transgender Day Of Remembrance?

Is there an International Women's Day of Remembrance? We bloody well need to get onto it given the numbers of us who are actually killed every single day. And given that the majority of women who are murdered are killed by men, that's anti-women (adult human female, to be clear - and that's not exclusionary, trans women don't want to be included anyway, they've made their own day they can't now complain about not being in ours).

And I do hope that they'll be remembering the trans people killed by other trans people. Because there are a fair few of them too.

From Wikipedia:

Transgender activist Mirha-Soleil Ross criticizes TDoR for conflating the motivation behind the murders of transgender women sex workers. In an interview with scholar Viviane Namaste, she presents examples of transgender sex workers who were murdered in Toronto for being sex workers and accuses the organizers of TDoR of using these women who died for being sex workers as martyrs of the transgender community.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_Day_of_Remembrance

Maybe we need a Sex Workers Day of Remembrance.

QuiteContraryMary you make a lot of sense and was well put. Thanks for taking the time.

I was annoyed this morning when I posted. Every murder is wrong. I'm disgusted at the coopting that the trans movement does. How can we be having a day of remembrance when literally nobody in the country knows or is related to someone we're supposed to be remembering?

And I still cannot get my head around trans women insisting I even write those two words separately because they're actual women, yet they refuse to drop the "trans". If you're a woman, shut up and get on with it. You know, like we have to do all the bloody time. They want to be treated and counted as women, yet want a day of remembrance (with funding) for not being actual women (few trans men I've come across seem to be quite so vocal, if they are then include them here too).

If you're going to declare yourself as at least as female/male as those of us born that way and want to end discrimination against you as you're not any different to other people, then you can't be having days that set you up as a third category!

Hopefully Lily and her fellow Labour Women's Rep in Telford will be championing an equivalent Remembrance Day for women killed in the U.K. and globally.

Yeah....didn't think so.

Maybe we need a Sex Workers Day of Remembrance
Yes that would be a good idea.

Otherwise it comes across as another attempt to paint transpeople in the here and now as victims and imply transphobia (actual transphobia as oppose to existence of biology transphobia) is much more common than it really is.

This is my issue with it. I have no problem with a day to remember the lives of murdered (mostly) Brazilian MTFs, but it should be clarified that that is where pretty much all the trans murders are. Not the UK.

Great piece by a New Yorker about the USA figures, I've posted this before so you may have read it.

The author is trans, so you know, please hold back on the outrage.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3402225-tg-day-of-remembrance?pg=3

Outspoken trans activists want to appear way more oppressed than they really are. To achieve this, they need to be able to prove just how discriminatory everyone is towards them. But since this doesn’t match up to reality, they have changed reality to make it line up with them. They have created linguistic rules that the common person has no way of knowing, so that when some ordinary person accidentally activates a semantic trap on Twitter or elsewhere, these angry trans folk can dogpile on them and call them out for being “transphobic.”
These people want to be oppressed because the left awards those that are victims, and now they’re in the most ironic dick-measuring contest of all time in an effort to prove which identity group is the most victimized.
This is even evident in how these wannabe victims misuse stats. In 2017, there were 28 transgendered individuals across the United States who were murdered. LGBT advocates would like you to believe that these people were all murdered due to their gender identity. However, in many cases, there is little to no evidence of this.
Hell, that statistic even includes three dumbasses who thought it was a good idea to charge law enforcement with knives.
Fun fact: That same year, multiple normal people were killed by police for the same reason — so, clearly, gender identity played no role in their deaths-by-cop.
This idea that we’re being murdered en masse has even led to some laughably bad claims. Remember the shrill voiced psychotic trans girl who heckled Rose McGowan at a Barnes and Noble a short while ago? Well, while she was shrieking at the actress she alluded that our deaths are comparable to genocide.

Link failure!

dailycaller.com/2018/05/12/linguistic-minefield-of-politically-correct-tranny/

Oh yes I remember that piece! Didn't the author come on MN when people liked it, or am I thinking of a different person?

If you're going to declare yourself as at least as female/male as those of us born that way and want to end discrimination against you as you're not any different to other people, then you can't be having days that set you up as a third category!

Their argument is transgender people are a subcategory of their identified sex so I don't think this particular line works, subcategories can still be singled out for events. I think they're a subcategory of their respective birth sexes which also doesn't preclude remembrance, if there was something to remember and if remembering it was actually the point of the exercise which sadly is not clear to me.

Catkind yes that's fair enough. At least there's a bit of logic in that line!

I agree too that they're a sub category of their birth sex. But that's always countered with a) you're transphobic or b) there are more than two sexes, you're just not up to date on biology............

Aye.

www.un.org/en/sections/observances/international-days/

Lots of international days to do with women and girls recognised by the UN.

I think there's a lot of conflating of two different issues going on here. As I said, there are valid talking points around the misrepresentation and politicising of statistics on crime towards trans people.

I also think there is no reason to object to the simple existence of a 'day' that you can very well just ignore. I am concerned about how transgender ideology becoming enshrined in law will impact the sex-based rights of women and girls and the impacts of premature transition on minors. I don't care what trans people do or think as long as it doesn't have a negative impact on others. I wish them to live happy lives. It is beyond me to see how some other people observing a non-compulsory day of remembrance for people they feel solidarity with could possibly be any of my business.

So if people are throwing around misinformation in an attempt to score political points, call it out by all means. If people are just lighting some candles or whatever they want to do to honour an issue close to their hearts, even if you think it's not a real issue or they don't even genuinely care, why does it matter?

There's a time for live and let live and this is definitely it.

www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/10/22/hate-crime-attack-chester-transgender-women/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Buffer&utm_campaign=PN

I can understand trans people feeling a connection to any trans person who is murdered on the other side of the world and I have no issue with a day of remembrance, as long as it is made absolutely clear that the figures used are global and do not reflect the UK.

Equally no murder figure, however high or low, is ever going to persuade me that human beings can change sex.

MagicMix if it were to commemorate the deaths from bigotry of trans people in, say, Brazil, that would be different. That's not what it's about though, at least not in the U.K. I'm not aware of flags being lowered for women killed by men on any day (maybe I've missed it - possible, I can't be everywhere!) and that's something that actually happens on our shores.

So they shouldn’t have a day of rememberance because most people that were killed were in Brazil? How ridiculous. I remember 9/11 every year, I don’t live in New York. Is that just a pity party to get us to love trump and his ideology? That is how you all sound.

The fact is, being transgender and knowing that people in the world have been murdered for being the same as you WILL scare you and make you want to remember them. Just like knowing some kids in Africa don’t have clean water to drink while you watch your toddler throw hers up the wall - there are times where you think of firstly, how lucky you are and secondly that someone in the world is in the same position as you ( a mother for example or a transgender person) and there fight is so much harder than yours and you want to acknowledge that.

This (rememberance day issue) is NOT about woman’s rights, this is pure nastiness and you should be ashamed of yourselves for dressing it up as ‘feminism’

And what’s worse is that an actual day dedicated to fighting against violence against women was not in the ‘feminism’ talk subjects, but a hate thread about a transgender day was.

It’s so wrong and I hope more woman and girls don’t suffer while the ‘feminist’ attention is focused solely on one thing.

Why does it matter that they were killed in Brazil or the USA mostly?

I care about women and girls who have been raped/murdered in any country because the reasons are part of a wider misogyny that I think is troubling.

Well said @EarlyWalker

"Killed for being the same as you" is rather a stretch unless you're a streetwalker in a very violent culture too. But go on then, some names, some stories? I'd be a lot more sympathetic to this event if I saw some actual remembering going on. We've all heard the stories from 9/11 and the world wars and recent terrorist events which are commemorated.

This (rememberance day issue) is NOT about woman’s rights, this is pure nastiness and you should be ashamed of yourselves for dressing it up as ‘feminism’

The points people are making on this thread are about the conscious manipulation and how this is being deliberately used to make it unacceptable to defend safeguarding. You are joining in on this manipulation for telling people they are nasty and should be ashamed. Any irony in the point you make about "dressing it up as feminism", no? as you can't see you are doing exactly what the thread is highlighting I doubt it.

The UN have designated November 25 as the International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women.

Shall we have a new thread to look at what we can do on that date for women?

Yes!

It’s so wrong and I hope more woman and girls don’t suffer while the ‘feminist’ attention is focused solely on one thing.

Do behave.

"The fact is, being transgender and knowing that people in the world have been murdered for being the same as you WILL scare you and make you want to remember them."

That isn't really what happens though.

TDoR will remember, for instance Vanesa Campos, who was killed in Paris for

"attempting to stop robbers stealing her client’s car"

Vanesa was not killed because she was transgender.

Vanesa was an immigrant from Peru

broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/nemz3m/vanesa-campos-sex-worker-murder-protests

There's a lot to unpick in that narrative, but at no point is it 'murdered for being the same as you'.

In some countries homosexual men are encouraged to transition. Some people twitter.com/yashar/status/1054111320298029056 are saying that Iran is more progressive than the USA, because in Iran they will stone you to death for homosexuality if you don't transition. That's where we are at this point.

I don't see there being too much in common between cultures or subcultures with very rigid heteronormative sex roles where those stepping out are told they are transgender/third sex, encouraged to get castrated, etc., and the modern Western culture of transwomen 'lesbians' loudly demanding to win women's sport, suck my she-penis, etc.

This (rememberance day issue) is NOT about woman’s rights, this is pure nastiness and you should be ashamed of yourselves for dressing it up as ‘feminism’

Sorry but I can’t help thinking you sound like Trump and other MRA’s telling women they are both nasty and not feminist. It’s not a good look.

I think observing a day of remembrance in solidarity with other people in less fortunate parts of the world is great. But I think there are a couple of valid points.

Firstly that it actually appears the majority were murdered for being sex workers, so I find it really wrong not to have that acknowledged & for the reasons behind their deaths to be attributed to something that is unlikely to have been a major contributing factor. In order to protect and prevent more deaths, honesty about why they are being killed is crucial.

Secondly, I think at least on social media we do see the myth that trans people are at a higher risk of being murdered, that can both unnecessarily frighten trans youth and affect the conversations we are having with regards to these law changes. Part of the message from TRA’s is that transgender people are the most vunerable group and therefore require protection, even if it conflicts with existing women’s rights. I understand that others here think it’s bad form to comment on remberance days and think they’re not something any of us should consider threatening in any way- that’s our natural instinct to sympathise and be respectful. I do however think there are valid points to discuss away from the day itself. I also think that many women are at the end of their patience and politeness, our special days are being appropriated and shared with others we don’t think belong remember, the words we use to describe ourselves in fact! So if you are asking women to back away from ‘trans days/issues/special things’ and respect those, you’ve got to do that both ways. That’s not the situation we are in.

It’s about remembering those who have been murdered simply for being themselves. Some of the comments on this thread are utterly disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourselves.

I can't bring myself to grumble about Transgender Day of Remembrance, I don't think it does any harm.

What does really boil my piss is when people like Munroe Bergdorf use the murders of South American trans sex workers so that they can tell everyone that as a 'transwoman of colour' they have a life expectancy of 35.

Now that is out of order.