TG day of remembrance

[WomanAndProud]

When did 20 November become the transgender Day Of Remembrance?

Is there an International Women's Day of Remembrance? We bloody well need to get onto it given the numbers of us who are actually killed every single day. And given that the majority of women who are murdered are killed by men, that's anti-women (adult human female, to be clear - and that's not exclusionary, trans women don't want to be included anyway, they've made their own day they can't now complain about not being in ours).

And I do hope that they'll be remembering the trans people killed by other trans people. Because there are a fair few of them too.

Terrorism being a form of extremism......

I sense you want to make a point here about extremism but I'm not sure what it is?

The trans sex workers murdered in South American are murdered because they are sex workers and vulnerable, and because the rates of homicide there are huge. Not because they are trans. The murder rate there does point to a form of extremism I guess, but it's not extremism against trans people specifically. The reasons why it's such a dangerous place to live are many and complex.

To take that problem and use it to make out that trans people are specific murder targets all over the world is totally disingenous, and also quite insulting to the victims of these murders

^^

I also think that Transgender Day of Remembrance is also to remember those who have died through suicide. Of those, there are definitely many more

We can start with commemorating David Reimer and other victims driven to suicide by failed trans experimentation.

So would I. Is there any such initiative by any of the trans lobby groups we see given so much media attention?

I'm not sure. Perhaps the trans advocates on this thread could tell us?

We can start with commemorating David Reimer and other victims driven to suicide by failed trans experimentation.

One of the saddest stories, I can’t imagine the pain his parents were left in after both children committed suicide. John Money also believed in ‘affectionate pedophilia’ and that we should differentiate it from ‘sadistic pedophilia’.

Before anyone has a go at me for raising pedophilia here, John Money was the doctor who butchered David & destroyed his family. His parents blamed him for both suicides.

On Naomi Hersi , I believe the case is still sub judice, hence limited comments on it (on here and in the wider press)

This thread simply illustrates the rage induced when any critical thinking is applied to any aspect of this subject.

By the same people that call Karen Ingala Smith a t*.

Fae actually tweeted that Hersi's death was the fault of women speaking at the time it happened.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3207407-Naomi-Hersi-transwoman-murdered-in-London?pg=2

Earlier thread.

Normally with remembrance, we use it to remind people what happened and how. A remembrance that deliberately obfuscates what happened and how - painting it as people killed just for being like us when the situation is far more complex - is problematic.

It is the scaremongering aspect too, how must that feel for young people considering their identity, who in fact are very safe in this country, to be told that people are being killed just for being trans. It feeds into the us Vs them rhetoric. If you think you might be killed for being trans you're much more likely to go around in gangs with "face coverings" and baseball bats. When actually the most terrifying thing that's likely to happen to you is seeing a few T-shirts sporting dictionary definitions.

When actually the most terrifying thing that's likely to happen to you is seeing a few T-shirts sporting dictionary definitions

You know that how? On any other behaviours of assaults on MN there would be a cry of "minimising!" with that statement.
We've had "literally doesn't happen" then some links to show yes,actually it does.
Now it's don't be daft, the most you're likely to get is seeing a tshirt."

We've had "literally doesn't happen" then some links to show yes,actually it does.

No. Now you must stop twisting things. Nobody said trans people don’t get murdered at all. But not because they’re trans most of the time. The link you’re referring to, or the person sadly killed, was not a result of transphobia. Stop saying it was.

It’s perfectly reasonable to have a day to compassionately and sympathetically think about people other than those you know personally.

I completely agree, but that wasn't my point. I'll use the example of Munroe Bergdorf's tweet (source here) earlier this year. It stated that statistically they would only live for another 4 years, because the life expectancy for transwomen of colour is 35 years. The implication being that TW of colour are killed at such a rate that their overall life expectancy is sharply reduced as a result and that violence against transpeople needed to be addressed as a priority.

The missing nuance here was the fact that the statistic was taken from a survey of Brazilian TW sex workers. Therefore Munroe - as a middle-class British transwoman with a media profile and platform - was highly unlikely to be within the same risk category as a Brazilian transwoman engaged in sex work as a way of keeping food on the table.

Context is key; by tweeting about the statistic Munroe was, at best, being disingenuous, by co-opting a problem that was not theirs to take. If there is no transparency then you are not only taking someone else's tragedy and using it for your own purposes, but you are denying that person their voice and the opportunity to raise the profile of their issues.

Had the suggestion been to visibly call out the number of transwomen engaged in sex work and suffering higher rates of violence and murder as a result, then that would have been transparent. Leaving out those details suggests to an uninformed and casual observer, that there is an unchecked and rising tide of violence within the UK against transpeople - which simply isn't true. Whether the oversight is accidental or deliberate is not for me to say. I have however, already called out that concern for the murder rate of Brazilian transwomen sex workers feels completely at odds with the prevailing view of Stonewall, Amnesty and most trans-activists, that prostitution should be legalised - when it has been demonstrated that the Nordic model would actually be more beneficial. That would be the Nordic model that feminists are labelled as 'SWERFs' for promoting.

This thread simply illustrates the rage induced when any critical thinking is applied to any aspect of this subject.

Yes it is. Unfortunately it’s precisely because certain people aren’t capable of any critical thinking, or following ours, that we get the ‘rage’.

The missing nuance here was the fact that the statistic was taken from a survey of Brazilian TW sex workers. Therefore Munroe - as a middle-class British transwoman with a media profile and platform - was highly unlikely to be within the same risk category as a Brazilian transwoman engaged in sex work as a way of keeping food on the table

Thank you for pointing this out.

Yes it is. Unfortunately it’s precisely because certain people aren’t capable of any critical thinking, or following ours, that we get the ‘rage’

No rage here. Just a feeling of sadness instead,I assure you.
Why get the rage just because someone disagrees with you?

That fucking tweet from Munroe: 'statistically I only have 4 years left to live, this is why transwomen need access to women's spaces' gives me the absolute rage every time I see it!

No. Now you must stop twisting things. Nobody said trans people don’t get murdered at all. But not because they’re trans most of the time. The link you’re referring to, or the person sadly killed, was not a result of transphobia. Stop saying it was

Unless you were the perpetrator, you wouldn't 100% sure know what the motive was behind it, would you? People who are trans clearly are hurt and attacked. Despite people saying "literally never happens."
It clearly does.
I'm not twisting anything.
Just seeing things from a different point of view which clearly isn't liked on here.

Surely, every murder is because the person is being themselves?

To try to co-opt the murder of Sophie Lancaster as a 'trans' killing is fucking low indeed.

I think there is a line between seeing things from a different perspective and actively misrepresenting facts (I'm not suggesting that you are doing this, but using it as a point to illustrate an issue around the wider debate).

People who are trans are clearly hurt and attacked - yes. But the point being questioned is whether it is true to say that they are hurt and attacked because they are trans.

Let's be clear; people being hurt and attacked for any reason is wrong and deplorable. But if someone has been hurt and attacked for being a sex worker and they also happen to be trans, then it would be misleading to say they were attacked for being trans and not mention the fact that they were a sex worker. This is particularly relevant if the murder rate for sex workers overall is significantly higher than the rest of the population. Going back to Brazil, a significant number of transpeople are involved in sex work - does their trans status or their occupation place them at higher risk? Correlation does not equal causation.

Why personal attacks just because I'm disagreeing with you?

To try to co opt the murder of Sophie Lancaster as a 'trans' murder is fucking low indeed.

To try to co-opt the murder of Sophie Lancaster as a 'trans' killing is fucking low indeed

FGS, nobody has done that at all. Sorry, but what are you talking about?
If you're referring to someone upthread mentioning her, it was clear that it meant she was killed just for being her. So called "different." Not co-opting as a trans killing at all, can't you see that?
A hate crime is a hate crime. Just saying they both would be.
Transpeople are entitled to a day of remembrance for other transpeople attacked or assaulted.
Which does happen.

People who are trans are clearly hurt and attacked - yes. But the point being questioned is whether it is true to say that they are hurt and attacked because they are trans

You seem to be saying that any transpeople being hurt and attacked is nothing to do with being trans. Denying it happens. "Well, it would have happened anyway. and not because they're trans."
What, nobody, anywhere, has a problem with transpeople and they're not subject to name calling, being hit etc?
If they do get hurt it's not because they're trans? There are people out there with a problem against them, you surely cannot deny it's existence.