TG day of remembrance

[WomanAndProud]

When did 20 November become the transgender Day Of Remembrance?

Is there an International Women's Day of Remembrance? We bloody well need to get onto it given the numbers of us who are actually killed every single day. And given that the majority of women who are murdered are killed by men, that's anti-women (adult human female, to be clear - and that's not exclusionary, trans women don't want to be included anyway, they've made their own day they can't now complain about not being in ours).

And I do hope that they'll be remembering the trans people killed by other trans people. Because there are a fair few of them too.

I personally object to the framing of the trans community as the most oppressed, the most vulnerable, the most at risk when that simply isn't true.

Celebrate being trans. Don't make it into a terrible tragic thing where you're more likely to die or have appalling mental health issues.

I could get on board with that. This oppression olympics is really revolting though.

Why would a poster be perceived as a hate crime?
My question exactly. But given TRAs are referring to any questioning if their dogma as hate crime, statistics that come from asking trans people if they've ever been a victim of hate crime become meaningless. Which is my other point, because it's likely real transphobia does exist, but we can't get an accurate picture because of all the reporting of non hate non crime under the hate crime label. Cry wolf.

Yes I'm still waiting for anyone to answer my questions about trans people who might have died from their medications or complications due to surgery?
Or when they are remembered?
I'm only asking because there was someone at the 'we're still here' conference claiming to have known 3 trans people who had died from taking hormones.
Either that's true, in which case, trans people are more danger of dying from hormones than murder, or its a lie, and a pretty strange lie to tell.
I can't knit, but I do crochet, suffragette scarfs for everyone...

You don’t need to minimise other peoples suffering

If that was true of the trans community, the GC women here would be (as many were in the beginning) very much supporters of trans rights. However the TRA lobby continually minimises other people's suffering in order to centre their own and frame them as so much worse, so much more significant, so much more pressing, for example trying to hijack Jean Hackett's rides for murdered women. Women constantly have their experiences minimised and silenced and denied by the TRA community and their supporters. The disabled community are currently having the toilets they fought for hijacked and repurposed without being consulted or even thought worthy of notice.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blinde. After this thread I no longer think feminists have the moral high ground that’s for sure.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blinde. After this thread I no longer think feminists have the moral high ground that’s for sure

This thread certainly an eye opener.

An eye for an eye? Moral high ground? That's honestly all you can comprehend or take away from anything anyone's made the effort to try to explain here?

And to just summarise your point there:

• Ok, so the TRA community treat women like shit - (and many other communities like shit too) - but women have a duty to rise above this and go on doing the right thing at all times irrespective of how they're treated, requiring nothing in return. Moral high ground, responsibility to not retaliate because the world needs to be a better place and that's obviously the sole job of people with vaginas. So the usual, extremely sexist, unequal, everyone's a mummy bollocks.

• Shame, guilt, shame shame shame. No actual engagement with any points raised, just a lot of superior shaming.

Yep, This is a thread about a rememberance day for transgender people who have died, this is nothing at all to do with woman’s rights. But people seem to think that it’s all been constructed to gain sympathy so they can get in our toilets... that’s the issue, yes? All your talk about TRAs and how they’re taking from the disabled and they’re making things up and shouting about this and that.. I’ve heard it a hundred times, that’s not what this is about. I’ve said my piece and In my opinion it is incredibly wrong that there is so much minimising of issues that trans face. Disagree with the ideology behind it - fine, fight for segregated spaces - again no issue, but the rest and what’s demonstrated here is just pure nastiness.

In no other group of people do we base the entire group solely on the ones we hear about more. We don’t tarr all Muslims with the ‘ISIS’ brush, or all catholics with the ‘Pedo’ brush for example, yet when it comes to trans issues people don’t think twice about dismissing real suffering based on a few outspoken TRA’s views and to deny that a group, which you are not part of and therefore speaking from a privilidged POV, has a right to remember those dead in their own way- is just appalling.

Nothing I say will make you think twice, in here you are with your own people. Everyone will say I’m just not seeing clearly or I’m too blinded but no, this is not about women, this is about hating that you cannot wholeheartedly deny that there is some oppression going on, because then you have to admit that maybe not every trans person is a man in a dress having a giggle.

Knicknackpaddyflak - stop twisting things. I’ve engaged a lot. You responded to my points about not minimilising trans suffering with a stomp of your feet and ‘but woman suffer too’ after I’ve said hundreds of times, that the oppression of one group does not make it ok to oppress another. And that some outspoken TRA do not stand for a whole community. You are the ones not engaging, by refusing to admit that trans people suffer and instead just repeating ‘woman suffer too’ as if everyone here does not already understand and agree with that. I was the one who pointed out the woman’s day of rememberance of those suffering DA, I’m pretty sure that event had gone right over most heads here, unlike the trans day of remembrance. Funny that.

I agree, there's very limited point in trying to talk about this.

I would point out to you that the quite intentional work to sway public opinion, get politicians on side, 'befriend' groups to gain trust etc to further the TRA cause (which is politically an anti women, anti safeguarding etc cause) is evidenced in the public domain. Referring to that evidence is not 'nastiness', it's pointing out a serious problem.

I would also point out that those members of the Catholic church and those members of ISIS are not highly influential, being invited to speak to select committees (with all dissenting voices excluded) nor guiding the creation of law. The 'they don't speak for us' doesn't work in those circumstances unless you yourself clearly position yourself away from them, which you haven't chosen to do on this thread.

There is no 'hate' anywhere on this thread, there is just disagreement and failure to service the belief that modern equality involves respecting a prescribed hierarchy.

No early, that isn't the issue. As has been explained to you tens of times on this thread. It's the positioning of transpeople as overwhelming victims of murder when the stats don't back that up at all.

Where's the celebration?

hi daily reminder that this thread that does not effect woman's rights and is something that is personal to a lot of the trans community is something that can be questioned and pulled apart because of reasons and some of the hate that is shown in this thread needs to be shown

It's the positioning of transpeople as overwhelming victims of murder when the stats don't back that up at all.

Why does it matter to you? Would you like trans people to dictate what us as women remember? People have died, one murder is too many. There is a long list globally of those that have died, I know a lot of trans people are remembering suicide victims also - if they want to light a candle, how is it affecting you? How is it affecting women?

The quite intentional work to sway public opinion
Trans rememberance day has been happening since 1999, why have you not had a problem with it for the last 20 years? The assuming that remembering people that have died, as a political gain is what’s ludicrous.

They don’t speak for us doesn’t work
Do you agree with everything Theresa may says is best for Britain? I don’t, and she was elected. These are self appointed activists in the public domain, they can hold their own opinion, doesn’t mean that everyone who is the same as them agrees with it.

Bespin, maybe you can answer my questions?
Do you know of any trans people who have died from their medications or complications due to surgeries?
Its just that there was someone at the 'we're still here' conference claiming to know 3 trans people who had died from taking hormones.
How prevalent is this?
I've looked around but can't find anything.

I don't come on FWR often but just want to add my voice to Bespin and Earlywalker.

Can't see how this thread is anything to do with women's rights, or why anyone would begrudge trans people having a day to remember murder victims.

Threads like this take away the strength of valid GC arguments as implies trans people are the problem rather than any laws or policies.

Can't see how this thread is anything to do with women's rights, or why anyone would begrudge trans people having a day to remember murder victims. Threads like this take away the strength of valid GC arguments as implies trans people are the problem rather than any laws or policies.

Completely agree with this @Jezebelz, couldn't have said it better. Add me to standing with EarlyWalker and Bespin as well.

I too want to add my voice to those of verbeena, bespin, jezebelz and earlywalker

Yep exactly what jezebelz said! Add my voice too. This thread makes me really sad.

"Trans rememberance day has been happening since 1999, why have you not had a problem with it for the last 20 years?"

Nobody has a problem with it! I think it's entirely appropriate for trans people, their friends, families, LGBT groups, etc to commemorate it. The issue, again, is with the TDoR being used as a bludgeon against people who don't agree with every item on the TRA wishlist.

E.g.,

www.independent.co.uk/voices/transgender-rights-attack-in-media-times-article-topshop-changing-day-of-remembrance-a8058676.html
metro.co.uk/2017/11/20/on-transgender-day-of-remembrance-lets-think-about-the-children-7093571/

I too want to add my voice to those of verbeena, bespin, jezebelz and earlywalker

@aridane

This thread's not so much about women's rights and is showing something else

verbeena, bespin, jezebelz and early walker, aridane, snorkmaiden, would any of you be able to answer my questions please?

JillyArmeeen

personally I have known no one who as died from this but 2 people that have had life changing complications from surgery no one ever enters into this lightly the risks are very real. in relation to hormones again I have known people who have in the old days suffered for poor medication Regimes and imported hormones as they have been unable to get actual treatment in the nhs or even monitored by there gp which is importent

Yep exactly what jezebelz said! Add my voice too. This thread makes me really sad

x

It's nice to get a bit of faith back, I don't care if that sounds too soppy for MN lol.

Completely agree with this @Jezebelz, couldn't have said it better.

Lol at 'couldn't have said it better'. Yes we know Verbeena.