TG day of remembrance

[WomanAndProud]

When did 20 November become the transgender Day Of Remembrance?

Is there an International Women's Day of Remembrance? We bloody well need to get onto it given the numbers of us who are actually killed every single day. And given that the majority of women who are murdered are killed by men, that's anti-women (adult human female, to be clear - and that's not exclusionary, trans women don't want to be included anyway, they've made their own day they can't now complain about not being in ours).

And I do hope that they'll be remembering the trans people killed by other trans people. Because there are a fair few of them too.

I want to keep highlighting this thread because every reply trying to justify why your reasons are valid shows one more reason why you really don't care about anyone else. please keep going, please keep telling us why you feel you are justified in your views around this.

and arguing that it does not happen here so why do it. is like saying why did we do a thing for Paris it didn't happen here, how short sighted do you need to be not to show empathy for others that are not in this country

@bespin yes, I'm with you there, just because people have said that it doesn't really happen in the UK doesn't mean that's a reason not to bother with it at all.
Wherever it's happening, it shouldn't be.

recognise the people who have died simply for being trans,

The point is that the vast majority didn't die 'simply for being trans'.

the point is that the list is not everyone that as died another reason the list started was that a lot of trans people were simply being reported and there original gender in media or the relatives were not recognising the persons gender. this still happens and so the list maybe does not record everything or some things are different but at least it allows someone to be remembered for who they were not how the world wishes to see them.

And the more you post Bespin, the more you demonstrate how one side of this are into personal, emotive, controlling behaviour, and the other talk about facts. It's very eye-opening to me too.

A trans day of rememberance Is An emotive and personal day, what do you expect? Do you think trans people should never talk about people who have been killed or kill them selves as not to ‘offend and control people?’ Should we say the same for black people becuase they have rights now hey? How many people are killed in the UK for just being black anyway?

Imagine the scenario, a day of rememberance for say sex workers, a group of men piling on to say ‘this is ridiculous they’re trying to control us to keep sex work illegal, barely anyone dies in the UK. This is all just propaganda’ how privilidged does that look?

I am not a TRA by any stretch, but when it stops being about woman’s rights, it just becomes hate.

Do you think trans people should never talk about people who have been killed or kill them selves as not to ‘offend and control people?’

No I don't think that at all.

I think that trans people should never co-opt the tragedies of others and appropriate them for themselves in order to peddle a false narrative.

Well said, @EarlyWalker. People dying IS emotive, it's an emotive subject. Telling them it's controlling behaviour to mention it - just .. wow.
It's about a day of remembrance - to remember. The whole POINT of the thread.

"Why do you need a day"
Somebody says why....

"Stop emotionally controlling"

FGS.
This isn't for women's rights. As Earlywalker said, this thread isn't really, is it. It's verging on hate.

So how do you guys feel about your day of remembrance being misrepresented by claiming it's only about victims of transphobic murder, or by implying to young transgender people in the UK that they're at risk? Aren't you angry about that?

yes, if I were a member of what is statistically one of the safest groups in the UK (that's trans people for those at the back), I'd be really angry and a bit baffled if some extreme activists were trying to make trans people feel unsafe in this country by implying that they're at great risk of harm.

I'd also be fucking furious about the way young trans people are practically incited to suicidal ideation by people like Susie Green constantly talking about it.

yes, if I were a member of what is statistically one of the safest groups in the UK (that's trans people for those at the back)

Firstly, I call bullshit, more than a third of trans people have been victims of hate crimes, a huge number attempt suicide. And any minority is never one of the safest people in the UK. But one death is too many, why does it bother you if they want to remember those killed or gone by suicide?

Have you been diagnosed with gender dysphoria? Do you know how it feels to feel like you’re in the wrong body? To cut your genitals with razor blades?

I don’t, from experience I know someone who has but I personally don’t and never have, so I will never claim to be an expert on them and their minds.

Imagine a bunch of men coming on here to tell us PND is just an excuse for being a shit mother. I’ve had PND I’d be fucking fuming at the accusation stated from a privilidged POV and you wonder why trans people want to fight for their voice.

On a day of rememberance, people can choose to remember whomever they wish. Be that murder or suicide victims, both of whom exist worldwide.

The day of remembrance is about people who have been killed for being trans I think?

of which there are thankfully almost none in this country. makes me proud to be british

who wants british trans people to feel unsafe in their own country and why?

more than a third of trans people have been victims of hate crimes
Think this answers the first part of your last question Bernard. Early does. Perhaps she can answer why.

And Early, I'm afraid I've stopped believing self identified crime stats on this subject. Given that TRAs are referring to any mention of female biology as hate crime, that stat is also part of the scaremongering.

Show me a conviction rate and I might be more concerned. The fact that a single case of a drunk woman being convicted of assault after shouting transphobic insults (which yes I would count as hate crime) makes the news and gets its own MN thread suggests to me that actual hate crime is rare.

It's a bit of a cry wolf situation. Because of the scare tactics and labelling women's rights discussion as transphobia and sex worker murders as transphobic murders, we no longer have a good picture of how much of a problem transphobia actually is. I think it probably is still a problem including in this country though a much smaller one than is usually made out, and certainly not any increased risk of being murdered. But we just don't know because the stats being put out are so alarmist as to make them nonsense.

more than a third of trans people have been victims of hate crimes

And how many women? Oh yeah, crimes against women don't count as hate crimes.

Show me a conviction rate and I might be more concerned.

Shall we start applying that to everything? Sexual assault for example? I’m pretty sure the conviction rate isn’t that high there. But shall we stop believing sexual assault stats as people make anything up these days, right?

and what about women
As I’ve said many times, the oppression of one group of people doesn’t make it ok to oppress another. Crimes against women and crimes against trans are two seperate issues. Fight for women’s issues if you’re concerned, fight to make misogyny a hate crime (this is currently actually in process)

Firstly, I call bullshit, more than a third of trans people have been victims of hate crimes,

What are we actually defining as a hate crime? It's quite a broad term. A transphobic murder would be a hate crime, but so potentially could misgendering be in some circumstances? Also is this an official figure or is it what self reporting people think of as hate crimes?

Show me a conviction rate and I might be more concerned.

According to this article, there were 19 prosecutions for transphobic hate crime, the previous year. Despite a massive increase in reporting.

With one tw saying it wasn't always physical, it was lots of laughs, stares and comments.

The problem here is if women reported that sort thing as a hate crime it would run to millions and millions per day.

Until the definition of hate crime does not include disagreement with an ideology that harms women, I shall, of course, remain sceptical.

It would also help if transactivists stopped getting caught lying (razor blades, knife threat, etc).

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/transphobic-hate-crime-statistics-violence-transgender-uk-police-a7159026.html%3Famp

Have you been diagnosed with gender dysphoria? Do you know how it feels to feel like you’re in the wrong body? To cut your genitals with razor blades

Take a look around the mental health boards just for a start! Then come back with that woe card. I could sit here and say do you know what is like to be so depressed you spend a month putting things in place for your kids before walking out the door into darkness of night chugging 100 pills to use as emotional blackmail to make people believe my views. stop it!

It really giving me rage at the disservice to every person past and present who has mental health issues. Just stop it!

Here you go this site helpful the also looking for volunteers who would like to be part of new research being carried out
bddfoundation.org

Also Betty posted a valuable link
www.samm.org.uk/index.php

Have you been on forums there to promote your Remembrance Day 🤔

Lastly Jilly questions that have been posted few times you continue to ignore any particular reason why?

Me personally if I was passionate about something I be spending more time promoting that than trying to argue the point but then I would have some valid reasons, reliable facts and resources to back that campaign.

The problem here is if women reported that sort thing as a hate crime it would run to millions and millions per day.

Until the definition of hate crime does not include disagreement with an ideology that harms women, I shall, of course, remain sceptical.

YY

Ikeepflouncing I think you’re a bit confused, I assume you’re not deliberate being obtuse. My next sentence was this -

I don’t, from experience I know someone who has but I personally don’t and never have, so I will never claim to be an expert on them and their minds.

So actually, I was saying I don’t know how it feels so I would not claim to be an expert on their minds with regards to the suicide comments. I also do not know what it’s like to be in your mind, so would never say that your suicide attempt was simply to gain sympathy or because people told you that you should to put woman in a better position politically

until the definition of a hate crime does not include disagreement with an ideology that harms women

I think that’s a bit twisted, to disagree with something and to go shouting in a trans persons ear ‘you are not a women, you’re a man with a fetish’ would be two very different things.

Trans people are not the only group to have attacked their body (including their genitals) because of some compulsion to change or damage it.

I'm going to put this link here, in case of lurkers who might be particularly affected by this issue: www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-health-problems/self-harm/about-self-harm/#.W9HOKHtKjIU

The Royal College of Psychiatrists notes that the people most likely to self harm are young women; asylum seekers and veterans; and gay or bisexual people

I think that’s a bit twisted, to disagree with something and to go shouting in a trans persons ear ‘you are not a women, you’re a man with a fetish’ would be two very different things.

Well I think that. There are plenty of transactivists who disagree though.

The only people I've heard shouting in this debate, let alone in people's ears, are TRAs. That's rather the point. If that stat on perceived hate crime includes things like Posie's posters and Debbie Hayton's articles, then a) I'm surprised the figures are so low, and b) trans hate crime no longer looks like something people should worry about. You see what I mean about crying wolf? They are harming transgender people's interests with this determination to cast them as victims. The real transphobic incidents get lost in the sea of outrage at someone having a different opinion.

Trans people are not the only group to have attacked their body (including their genitals)

Nobody has said they are. Women aren’t the only people who get sexually abused, does that mean it’s not a problem? As I’ve said continuously groups of people are allowed to talk about issues they face, and their oppression, this does not take away from other issues in the world. You don’t need to minimise other peoples suffering, and doing so harms your debate as true feelings start shining through and it’s clear it’s not solely aimed at protecting women imo.

Why would a poster be perceived as a hate crime? Are Posie Parker and Debbie Hatton in prison? If you really think that trans people don’t face REAL transphobia in life, that’s astonishing.