Ricky Gervais chimes in over Karen White

[Freespeecher]

Rickeyyy!!!

twitter.com/rickygervais/status/1050707771837026304?s=20

Just a reminder about how stark the differences are between the two prison populations.

90% of violent offenders in prison are male.

98% of sexual offenders in prison are male (in fact there are more male sex offenders in prison in the UK than there are women in total for any crime).

46% of women in prison report having suffered domestic violence.

53% of women in prison report having experienced emotional, physical or sexual abuse during childhood.

31% women in prison have spent time in local authority care as a child.

Most women in prison are there for non-violent offences - property crime, handling stolen goods, drugs offences.

This is the pool of vulnerable women that the TRAs want to put violent male rapists in amongst.

Karen White said "she" (your words)

1. MN requires us not to 'mis-gender' people who say they're women.

1. Karen White is continuing to transition.

1. Your comments about KW are actually transphobic, by Stonewall definition.

And I won't let my caring about one group mean I throw another to the wolves. I won't ever become a transphobe in the name of feminism.

What about the actual women prisoners? Where in your feminism do they count? From all the woke comments you’re making, not ONCE have you mentioned what the vulnerable female prisoners. It’s all about the trans identifying males. You should be ashamed of yourself. It’s the TRAs and pandering women that caused these vulnerable women to be abused. THEY are the victims, not some confused man, but the actual women that are expected to shove over and let trans identifying males into their spaces. You’re not a kind, understanding or decent feminist if you put their needs before actual women.

I wonder how many hours days it will be before The Guardian/BBC label Ricky Gervais as "far right"?

VickyEadie Karen White is a rapist.

You can't have a sliding scale of what is a woman.

Seems like a lot of people who call themselves gender critical think you can.

Really? Because all I see is women saying women are XX and anyone born XY is a man, regardless of what they do to themselves.

You're the only one who appears to be suggesting you can differentiate between true trans and fake trans.

VickyEadie Karen White is a rapist.

I know. I was pursuing the absurdist line that MN and the TRAs require of us.

Woman = adult human female.

C’mon, surely everyone knows that’s the GC view by now?

'And I won't let my caring about one group mean I throw another to the wolves.'

Except you are doing exactly that Caligula. With women, the cunty kind (as someone on here so delicately puts it )

CaligulaBlushed - This is not about emotion. I was designated of the female gender at birth on my birth certificate, therefore I belong in a female prison. If I was transitioning to become male I would expect to be placed into a female prison until fully transitioned and then the same as other males. Then I would expect to be transferred to a male prison. Prisoners of both sexes are often segregated because of the crimes they have committed so I would expect that to be taken into consideration as well. Every prisoner has a right to safety while they are incarcerated. If you have committed crimes which see you jailed you must expect to have lose some of the rights which law abiding citizens are entitled too...

Women don't have penises.

Not ever.

3. Your comments about KW are actually transphobic, by Stonewall definition.

Don't go around telling people Stonewall said you can't say someone isn't trans when they've SAID they aren't trans. Stonewall support TRANS people, not people who have said themselves that they're pretending to be trans.

From all the woke comments you’re making, not ONCE have you mentioned what the vulnerable female prisoners. It’s all about the trans identifying males.

I've mentioned vulnerable women in prison quite a lot, thank you very much. Scroll back through the thread. I just haven't singled out just the NATAL women for my concern.

But a trans woman who doesn't pay her tv licence should be locked in with the men?

Why the hell should the women be locked in with the trans woman?!!!

I often wonder what LibFems/ TRAs hunk when they see mainstream news outlets report on these cases.

When they see the comments from dozens upon dozens of average people pointing out the obvious flaws with self id, saying TW are never women and often just taking the piss out of the whole issue. Are they still so adamant that the majority of society are sympathetic to the cause?

I just haven't singled out just the NATAL women for my concern.

Still advocating for the men, then.

Don't go around telling people Stonewall said you can't say someone isn't trans when they've SAID they aren't trans. Stonewall support TRANS people, not people who have said themselves that they're pretending to be trans.

Stonewall include a vast range of people as 'trans'. I'll say it again - Karen White is continuing to 'transition' - who are you to say that KW is not trans?

FairPlay for Women have started a relevant petition: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/228767

Also Stonewall support a massive number of people under their "transgender umbrella", including "feminine men" and "masculine women". They've gone mad.

I can't see how to balance the rights of everyone as it stands

Wanting legal entitlement to a group's provision and resources by subjective choice, while not having the characteristics of the group, is not a right. It's a want. It should not be a right.

It will not balance, because men cannot be given this entitlement without massively affecting the interests and sex based rights (actual rights) of women.

It worked after a fashion when this was about a tiny proportion of men with a diagnosed condition and very tight, demanding gatekeeping. It no longer works because it's now about any man, at any time, with no gatekeeping at all.

At this point, no. Male access to female provision under any circumstances needs to end. Instead, third space gender neutral (or in prison situations trans specific) spaces and provisions need to be the alternative available for people choosing not to use the sex segregated provision.

Caligula Karen White has NOT said they aren't trans. KW presented as a woman at the sentencing hearing and is said to be continuing their transition.

Why the hell should the women be locked in with the trans woman?!!!

Your disgust and revulsion at the very idea is palpable.

No transphobes on Mumsnet, no siree.

But a trans woman who doesn't pay her tv licence should be locked in with the men?

Yes.

Given they are usually in for far more minor crimes than men (not paying tv license for example ) and that their crimes are very frequently in order yo support a family member, do you feel that their incarceration should be made far worse by being locked in with men?

But a trans woman who doesn't pay her tv licence should be locked in with the men?

YES. There are wings for vulnerable prisoners, they should be in one of those. In a MALE prision. There's a good argument for their having a single cell though.

I am quite impressed at your internal editing though, that that's what you came away with from my post. I have now answered your question so please will you answer mine?

On the Karen White case, the TRAs seem to be divided between those who say:

a. White is genuinely trans, but dangerous, so should be separated from other prisoners. And you know, this isn't an issue about trans at all, it's an issue about what to do with violent prisoners, move along, nothing to see here.

b. White is a fake trans! White is just pretending to be trans in order to get into a women's prison. Naughty White. Real trans people aren't rapists.

Of course, both positions are utterly, moronically stupid, but it is almost amusing to see the way they can't even get the party line straight. I imagine it won't be long before group a accuse group b of being transphobic.

No transphobes on Mumsnet, no siree.

Can you explain how it is transphobic to say that a male bodied transwoman should be put in a male prison?

Still advocating for the men, then.

Does your humanity extend only to natal women then? Our poor sons.

It's a certain kind of person who thinks humanity should only be applied to one sort of human. If you're that sort of person it doesn't make you a feminist, it makes you something very different indeed.