Ricky Gervais chimes in over Karen White

[Freespeecher]

Rickeyyy!!!

twitter.com/rickygervais/status/1050707771837026304?s=20

Do you think it is right for this rapist to be housed in a women’s prison Caligula ?

Well done Ricky

NopeNi are you saying all trans women are men? And that a fully transitioned trans woman should go to a men's prison if, for example, they're convicted of dangerous driving?

Or would you like to lay out the specifics of your proposal?

Do you think it is right for this rapist to be housed in a women’s prison Caligula ?

No. I think this rapist quite obviously should not have been housed with women, regardless of their gender or anatomy. Clearly a terrible idea. They should have been housed with all of the other prisoners who present a significant risk to other inmates. All of those facilities are on the male estate.

That's exactly what it says in my post

Well … not exactly

Caligula what do you call fully transitioned? Under the current law a man doesn't have to have SRS to gain a GRC. What's wrong with a wing of the men's prison being kept for trans women?

If you look at current prisons regulations, there is no provision in the female estate for very violent offenders: if a woman is too violent for a women's prison she has to be sent to a segregated wing of a men's prison. So if the prison service can cope with that, they can put trans women in separate wings of men's prisons.

Yes I really don't get why trans prisoners can't have their own separate wing in a men's prison, if it's their safety that is the issue?

Caligula what do you call fully transitioned? Under the current law a man doesn't have to have SRS to gain a GRC.

I know that. I asked that poser if they thought someone who HAD had SRS should be in the men's estate for a non-violent offence.

So if the prison service can cope with that, they can put trans women in separate wings of men's prisons.

If a trans woman with a penis is not in any way a danger to women or other inmates why would you put them in their own special bit with those people we're always being told will "claim" to be trans in order to abuse people. Surely you're just handing them over to the predators I keep hearing about.

I think it's perfectly fine to take non violent trans women who do not pose a threat to other prisoners and house them along with all the other women. And to take dangerous prisoners, man or woman, and house them where they can't hurt anybody.

Why would anybody argue with that?

Yes, that's the logical end result now (with secure units in those and careful care).

Because how can you judge a "real" transwoman? You can't anymore. That's how it used to work.

Right now any man who says it (like "Karen"), is absolutely equal in their rights to someone who's had surgery and years of a dedicated quiet life. The number of reports about this is increasing. More men will take the piss.

So why should women's units have to be rebuilt and remodelled to accommodate the increasing number of men clearly trolling the system?

You might as well create unisex prisons (which might indeed be the future goal, like everything else).

It's shit and it's not what I'd personally want for a "real" transsexual, but if the choice is "anyone who says he's a woman" and "no men", I can only think the latter is best.

This situation will apply to far, far more transwomen who still have penises than those who have had operations.

And KW didn't even have a GRC.
That's how shit the system is for vulnerable women, their need for safety and privacy counts for nothing.

SPOFS
He had a rant about Caitlyn Jenner is his last stand up show, I think?

Sean Locke has been quite outspoken in some of his stand-up shows as well, but like RG he's a bloke so he gets a pass.

13M followers. 13 million.

yes, all transwomen are men. All of them. No exceptions. No amount of medication, surgery or presentation makes a man a woman.

and neither you nor MNHQ can compell me to say otherwise.

This would all be easily solved if we just accepted that gender - and any presumed associated attributes/clothing or lifestyle choices etc - might be a personal choice that you make for yourself and maybe ask your friends and family to respect (like if you prefer to go by a name other than that on your birth certificate), but as far as the law is concerned, only biological sex has any standing.

For all legal purposes, if there is any doubt or controversy, your biological sex will be determined by a (clothed) visible inspection of your physical attributes or, at your request, by an unclothed visible inspection. If there is still any ambiguity, it will be determined by a DNA test to verify whether you have XX or XY sex chromosomes.

Sorry RiverTam I disagree with you. Pretty sure I'm not the only one.

I think it is completely the duty of the prison service to identify dangerous inmates and to keep other prisoners safe from them. That's their job. It might be easier to put all the trans women in with the men and say hey, not our problem, but that's not fair on those trans women. What is fair is for the prison service to do their job properly and keep prisoners safe whilst they're in custody. That's a basic level of what we should expect from them.

For all legal purposes, if there is any doubt or controversy, your biological sex will be determined by a (clothed) visible inspection of your physical attributes or, at your request, by an unclothed visible inspection. If there is still any ambiguity, it will be determined by a DNA test to verify whether you have XX or XY sex chromosomes.

And that's not even a little bit of a violation when you're going to prison for driving without due care and attention.

VickyEadie Fri 12-Oct-18 12:35:21
Some idiots on there going for the 'clearly not a true trans person' line.
OK - tell us how we identify which ones are not 'true trans' in advance, please.
People with gender dysphoria are truly troubled and deserving of help and respect. The only people who are able to properly diagnose dysphoria are gender specialist doctors and psychologists, like the ones who do assessments of people requesting genital reassignment surgery or GRC.
We don't need to worry about recognising the 'true trans' because the professionals can do that. Further the dysphorics (my own child included) get counselling and therapy to enable them to make the best choice for them about how to proceed.

It's not as if they'll start handing out GRC without the expert input to that any predator or fetishist who claims they need one......oh, oh goodness, erm, 19th October people. Just saying.

no, what's not fair on those men is that anyone has given them the impression that they can ever be women. So let's start out from the beginning. No, you can't ever be a woman, in reality or in law. You can dress how you like, enjoy whatever hobbies you like, call yourself what you like, surgically or chemically castrate yourself if you like. You'll never be a woman so you need to understand that should you ever commit a crime then you'll be housed with men.

no confusion, no room for error, and no chance of a woman being sexually assualted by a man who is where he shouldn't be.

That's all if you really give a shit about women and girls.

Given that one in five women in the general population have been sexually assaulted and we know it is far higher in the prision population do you understand that for a large number of women being locked in with men (or those they perceive to be men if you prefer) would be highly traumatic?

Given they are usually in for far more minor crimes than men (not paying tv license for example ) and that their crimes are very frequently in order yo support a family member, do you feel that their incarceration should be made far worse by being locked in with men?

Do you understand that many women can't be in close contact with male non family members because of religious reasons and that to incarcerate them together prevents them from the right of practising their religion?

Do you understand that even without all that human rights laws state that males and females should be incarcerated separately?

'yes, all transwomen are men. All of them. No exceptions. No amount of medication, surgery or presentation makes a man a woman.'

Completely with you RiverTam

Sorry I agree with RiverTam. I cannot accept the rights of minority to trump the rights of women or create a loophole for non genuine trans women / men to exploit.

I give a shit about women River. I give a shit about natal women AND trans women. I actually give a shit about people, not just the ones that are "just like me". How awful. And I won't let my caring about one group mean I throw another to the wolves. I won't ever become a transphobe in the name of feminism. Not going to happen.

You CAN be a woman in law, and loads of psychologists seem to agree that some people need to live as one sex when their body dictates they should live as the other. What that means for them is that they will BE that other sex, for almost all practical purposes. As someone who is tolerant of others I respect that, and I respect it is a genuine need. There will be monsters who abuse society's trust, and they need to be prevented from doing that as best as we can, but not at the expense of those with a genuine need.

I fucking love Ricky Gervais. He's been on our side since the beginning.

And is genuinely very funny, and he's my weird crush. But also because of that ^

Surely some vulnerable women in prison will find ANYONE with a penis to be threatening to them - many will have suffered sexual assault. The prison service need to safeguard them by keeping ALL penises away from them, however they identify. The very fact of them being there, whether they intend to harm women or not, is in itself dangerous to the mental health of the women. Men should be kept separately to wome.