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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ricky Gervais chimes in over Karen White

585 replies

Freespeecher · 12/10/2018 12:28

Rickeyyy!!!

twitter.com/rickygervais/status/1050707771837026304?s=20

OP posts:
SirVixofVixHall · 13/10/2018 10:40

Karen White is very obviously a fetishistic cross dresser, which comes under the trans umbrella as Stonewall explain it.
I am heartily sick of any trans person who commits a crime then being labelled as “ not trans “, when M trans commit crimes at the same rate as all other males.

LangCleg · 13/10/2018 10:43

Male transgender prisoners do present significant issues for the prison system. As we know, the proportion of Cat A or sex offenders among them is about 3x higher than in the general male population and more than 100x higher than in the female population. You can't have trans-specific prisons because you can't shove low risk prisoners in with high risk prisoners just because they share a trans identity and also, recidivism is much higher when prisoners are accommodated too far away for their friends and family to visit regularly. And you can't put them in with women for obvious safeguarding reasons and the difference between patterns of offending.

The only cost-possible, safeguarding-effective response is to improve capacity and facilities for vulnerable prisoners within the male estate.

LangCleg · 13/10/2018 10:44

(Note: it is possible to be both a vulnerable and a dangerous high risk prisoner at the same time. In fact, most of them are.)

arranfan · 13/10/2018 10:47

I wonder if MNHQ might consider bringing on Richard Garside, Frances Crook or whomever to discuss what an appropriate root and branch reform of the Criminal Justice system and prison estate would look like? In general, and addressing this issue as well?

LangCleg · 13/10/2018 10:49

I wonder if MNHQ might consider bringing on Richard Garside, Frances Crook or whomever to discuss what an appropriate root and branch reform of the Criminal Justice system and prison estate would look like? In general, and addressing this issue as well?

I would LOVE that.

Knicknackpaddyflak · 13/10/2018 11:09

Karen White is trans. There is no way around that. White self identifies, has lived in role - intermittently, but Bunce does it once or twice a week when the mood strikes and has won a women's award - who knows what degree of dysphoria White does or doesn't suffer. It's irrelevant.

By Stonewall's standards, by the Prison authority standards, White was trans. Some rapists, sex offenders and dangerous people are going to be trans, the way some gay people are, some men are, some women are. Trans is never going to be a guaranteed way to prevent any sex offending - if it was then for God's sake we could just push this on the male population, encourage all of them to transition and male violence would end overnight.

White is trans. That's fine. White's fully entitled to be trans. So is anyone else. Their offending behaviour doesn't change their right to their own identity, gender expression, authentic self and all the rest of it. What White proves is that transwomen cannot be given open, free, self identified rein to walk into women's spaces because some will use that as a means to offending, and some offenders will see transition as a very useful means to offending. That harms everyone.

Third space.

MaryDollNesbitt · 13/10/2018 12:18

Has anybody mentioned Jonathan Pie (played by Tom Walker), the satirical journalist, yet? I've been keeping a close eye on his YouTube channel, wondering whether or not (ahem . . . WHEN) he would weigh in on the trans debate. JP has amassed quite a big following for his explosively funny 'reporting' and a great deal of people watch his videos around the world.

Mentions Graham Linehan's police warning and his personal support for a wider debate on trans issues in YouTube video about free speech.

Twitter page here, where he retweeted Ricky G's post about Karen White yesterday.

Also posted about how the word 'woman' is now seen as 'anti woman' with a link to the BBC 'womxn' article here. A lot of support for how fucking ridiculous this whole thing is becoming in the comments.

Ereshkigal · 13/10/2018 19:45

You really need to meet some trans inclusive women, we're not the super woke numbskulls you seem to think we are.

Not really seeing all that much evidence of that tbh

Ekphrasis · 13/10/2018 20:29

I just saw the pie thing on my fb and wondered if it was in any way about this.

Shame he hasn't done a skit on the poise posters. (Yet!)

ZuttZeVootEeVro · 13/10/2018 20:31

Thanks for that link MaryDollNesbitt. I knew he'd tackle this eventually.

RiverTam · 13/10/2018 20:45

Knick nope, White is a man. No such thing as trans. I am simply not buying it for a fucking minute longer. I’m actually embarrassed at how long it’s taken me to come to this realisation but now I have I’m not deviating from it for a second.

RiverTam · 13/10/2018 20:47

Interesting that the mods have been very quiet on this thread. Presumably even they can’t accept White as a woman of any ilk. Shame it takes women being assaulting in women’s spaces for that to happen but I suppose one can’t have it all.

rightreckoner · 13/10/2018 20:59

They are squaring the circle by letting us call convicted men men. Other sorts we still have to call women. Jess Bradley appears to be the marginal case .... under investigation for indecent exposure but not yet charged or convicted. If that should ever happen they may magically change sex again in mods land.

Lottapianos · 13/10/2018 21:22

'White is a man. No such thing as trans. I am simply not buying it for a fucking minute longer'

Yet again, I'm with you RiverTam. Let's stop gaslighting ourselves and each other. This person is a man. I don't give a flying fig how they 'identify'. You're either a man or a woman. End of.

And yes, I've been wondering about the mods too. Maybe they're quietly rowing back on their recent position

NopeNi · 13/10/2018 21:32

The mods just won't be under siege from reports, that's all. I guarantee if you post about another named known person like Lily Madigan in a certain way, it would vanish.

ThePrincipal · 13/10/2018 21:34

I m also coming to the conclusion that there’s no such thing as transgender.

It is the only logical clear cut conclusion.

Ereshkigal · 14/10/2018 01:19

It’s the trolly problem. Do you let the train run on and hit one trans person, or pull the lever and divert it into half the population?

Brilliant analogy.

IfyouseeRitaMoreno · 14/10/2018 06:10

no matter what her crime, the risk of rape is categorically NOT a part of her legally-sanctioned punishment.

I think a lot of people think that women in prison are not worth our sympathy. One friend I was discussing this issue with was in agreement about the sports issue but dismissed the prison issue as not worth worrying about because the “women in prison were in prison for a reason”.

It would be interesting to find out the kind of crimes women are in prison for. There’s a common idea that women get smaller sentences than men and are less likely to go to jail but my understanding is that they get sent to jail for smaller crimes ( like not buying tv licenses etc).

Childrenofthestones · 14/10/2018 06:11

Should be really simple.
If you have a penis you go to a men's prison, regardless of what you present as or call yourself. If that puts you in too much danger go on rule 43.
If you are post op, then it's the ladies clink for you.
With regards to Linehans police warning, there is an irony that he is reaping what he sowed after trying to destroy the life of Marcus Meechan , (the Nazi saluting Pug joke guy ) mentioned by Pie in the clip above.
Here is his take on it.

Things do have a habit of biting you on the arse.
Shambalashawadeewadee · 14/10/2018 06:39

The best way for transwomen to stay safe is to not be criminals and then they won’t go to a prison (for either sex). Quite simple really.

If they really feel they must break the law then they run the risk that they may not go to a prison with the gender of their choosing and surely that should act as a deterrent for their behaviour more than the average criminal?

Could the UK have one tiny transgender prison? TINY (in line with the percentage of the population who are transgender in the UK) - would that solve the issue?

Childrenofthestones · 14/10/2018 07:25

"Could the UK have one tiny transgender prison? TINY (in line with the percentage of the population who are transgender in the UK) - would that solve the issue?"

An attractive proposition but if there was only one I'm pretty sure it would be against their human rights for them to be sent to prison so far from their families.
Perhaps a Trans-wing built on each male prison where" women with willies" Confused could be put. It wouldn't have to be that big as there are not that many of them.
Post-op f2m could be put in with the general female prison population.

Childrenofthestones · 14/10/2018 07:27

Edit.... that should read m2f
It's too early in the morning for this shit😖

arranfan · 14/10/2018 09:15

I wrote this upthread:

he women's prison estate is too small and too old to cope with that level of expansion. Relative to the men's estate it is small and already very limited with too many of the institutions too far away from inmates' friends and family to be able to keep up relationships against the day that they are released.

If self-ID is allowed, it will not take many prisoners to self-ID before they would require a disproportionate amount of the female estate and there just aren't the facilities.

I know I've written this up before with various links but AS is letting me down and I need to walk somewhere, in the rain, quite soon as Sunday morning public transport is "Fill in the blanks".

Aristaeus76 · 14/10/2018 10:01

Where do post-op f2m prisoners go? They have a male body and a penis. Are they still put in with female prisoners?

QuietContraryMary · 14/10/2018 10:07

The rules state if you have a male GRC then you must go in a male prison, no questions, no exceptions. This is irrespective of surgery.

However if this is followed in practice, idk

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