Ricky Gervais chimes in over Karen White

[Freespeecher]

Rickeyyy!!!

twitter.com/rickygervais/status/1050707771837026304?s=20

Caligula would you happily put a trans woman in with a group of female prisoners even knowing that many of them have been victims of sexual assault (some since childhood), are vulnerable and frightened of all men?

If so how do you justify doing such a thing?

God I wish Verbeena was here

Oh god please no 😂

Caligula
So should a man who has not paid his TV licence be put in a woman's prison?
What's the difference between a man with a penis who has not paid his TV licence and a transwoman with a penis who has not paid their TV licence?

Ricky is a HUGE animal rights campaigner also. I have a lot of time for him. Even more so after this. Even if I don't necessarily like all his comedy.

You can't even answer a question on an anonymous Internet forum can you?

What is a "real" transwoman?

Bear in mind if you specify genitals or surgery then you're transphobic.

If there's no way to tell, why should we let every single man who says he is a woman into a woman's prison?

But how are the prison service supposed to spot this obvious fact. They, we, the judges are not gifted with telepathy. Unless a "fake" transwoman makes the mistake of confessing that they were just trying to get one over on the system (as it would appear Karen White has done), there is nothing to distinguish them from a "genuine" transwoman, or simply a better faker who can keep a straight face about it for longer.

So you tell us - how do we tell? How do we do these risk assessments?

My risk assessment would be quite simple. XY chromosomes - men's prison (possibly specialist trans wing within men's prison), definitely not women's prison.

You owe us an account of how we tell the difference between "true trans" and "fake trans."

CaligulaBlushed

I haven't found firm ground with this yet but what I'm grappling with currently is why transwomen would want to be in a women's prison, regardless of the crime they committed. Presumably it would be to escape the men and in doing so preserve their safety, dignity and privacy? But if we put transwomen in women's prisons, again regardless of the transgression that led them there, are we not denying women the same right? And at the same time, also open women up to men who could also abuse the system? I can't see how to balance the rights of everyone as it stands.

This is the current rock I'm floundering on anyway!

And that's not even a little bit of a violation when you're going to prison for driving without due care and attention.

Not if it's offered to the convicted person as an option that they may wish to choose. It's no violation to be observed clothed in public - that's what clothes are for.

All a transwoman has to do is state that they identify as the female gender, but for legal purposes, is biologically of the male sex. If there is still any confusion or query, the person's original birth certificate could be consulted without them ever needing to opt for an unclothed observation or DNA test, unless they truly want to.

CaligulaBlushed

I think Karen White is a dangerous man, a rapist, and is a threat to everyone around them, particularly women.

How can you say that? KW says she is a woman. What criteria are you using to decide she is not, in fact, a woman?

the prison service (though actually, it's not their call, is it?) would never had even contemplated putting him in a women's prison if it wasn't for the actions of TRAs over poor little Tara Hudson.

I can be enraged by more than one thing at a time, btw. I'm getting a lot of practise at the moment.

The third space solution is the only thing appropriate for prisons. I cannot see any other way around it. We cannot distinguish "true trans" from "fake trans" and then the trans activists can sort out who gets to go into the the trans wing, without any risk to females. If they want self-ID, then so be it.
Let the males with gender dysphoria sort out their own systems for their own space, where they can be appropriately supported by staff who are trained in trans specific issues.
No males should get access to the female space. It creates a "pull factor" that attracts the really psychopathic offenders and is far too dangerous for females. Simply unacceptable.
It is not for women to take on the extra risk of violence or sexual assault or discomfort or emotional burden involved with bending over backwards to try to accommodate males with gender dysphoria in the spaces designed for females only.
No.

God I wish Verbeena was here, we could have a right old laugh at how YET AGAIN that is not what I said. Not even close! Go on, tell me again that's what I said, even when it's here in black and white.

But you keep referring to transwomen who have had SRS, who don't have a penis, as if they are a 'different' sort of transwoman to the ones who haven't? Or at least that how it comes across?

But a trans woman who doesn't pay her tv licence should be locked in with the men?

Yes. We call it segregation by sex and we have it for risk management reasons. A penis in a shower is triggering for a survivor. Women's vulnerability counts too, you know.

Next?

gender if it were a normal, everyday trans woman, no reason to believe she posed a particular threat to women, yes I would. The women are housed with the women. If a prisoner is scared of people who look like men TO THEM, would you take away any prisoner who reminded them of a man? Even if they weren't a trans woman? Or would you only make the TRANS woman who they think look like men live somewhere else?

'Just madness and would be laughable if it wasn't so dangerous.'

Absolutely, and it wouldn't be entertained for a second in relation to any other protected characteristic. I'm white but I identify as black - excuse me????? I'm 25 but I identify as 60 so can I have my pension please - WTF????

Karen White doesn't think Karen White is a woman, from what I've read! Didn't he admit to pretending to be trans to access women in prison? This is exactly the kind of thing prisons should be well aware of; criminals being, well, criminal.

But if we are only going on the word of someone, which is what all the TRAs are arguing is the way the system should work, then how do we know how they truly feel?

But you keep referring to transwomen who have had SRS, who don't have a penis, as if they are a 'different' sort of transwoman to the ones who haven't? Or at least that how it comes across?

I'm responding to posters to see if THEY think there is a difference. Because if they DO think there is a difference I want to know where they draw the line.

How can you say that? KW says she is a woman. What criteria are you using to decide she is not, in fact, a woman?

Karen White said "she" (your words) pretended to be trans. That's a pretty easy criteria to apply to decide when someone is not actually a trans woman.

'Women's vulnerability counts too, you know.'

This needs saying, again and again and again, because I'm hearing an awful lot of handwringing about the impact of all this terrible business on the poor old trans community, and limited fucks being given about the impact of this on women, who were after all the VICTIMS of this individual's attacks

This whole this is ridiculous.

You can't have a sliding scale of what is a woman.

A Netherlands study showed that trans women commit crime at the same rate as men. Because they are men. Not at the same rate as women.

Women are at risk from male violence all day Every day. Cutting a man's penis off doesn't make him a woman.

Trans women don't want to be in a male prison. Why? Because men are a danger? Bevause they are vulnerable in that situation? But it's ok for women to have to have a man in their prison?

Trans women, post op are trans women. They aren't women. It's that simple. They can live, dress and act as they want. They are still as likely to commit a crime as man so they are still a risk.

Great trans prison wings. Don't ask (or rather force) women, yet again to make room while putting themseleves at risk

I don't understand how you're not up in arms at the prison service for somehow not spotting that blatantly obvious fact.

Because there isn't a blood test or nice little birth mark stating 'genuinely convinced of being internally female despite outward appearance' and 'pisstaker'. Nobody knows. It's not possible to tell, you go on the subjective opinion of the person. Who may be lying. Or may not be. Is that a fair risk to ask women to suck up?

Facts also must be faced that being genuinely convinced of being internally female, and being properly trans doesn't mean the same person isn't also a sex offender. The two things aren't mutually exclusive. Is that a fair risk to ask women to suck up?

How do the women who will be imprisoned with this male bodied person and expected to live/toilet/shower alongside them feel about it?

Have they made an informed choice regarding their safety, privacy and dignity?

Have they seen their interests fairly weighed up against the interests of the male bodied person who wishes to have access to them?

Do they consent?

Does anyone give a fuck if they do or not?

But if we are only going on the word of someone, which is what all the TRAs are arguing is the way the system should work, then how do we know how they truly feel?

A lot of systems are based on how people "feel". We undertake psychological assessments, that's all you can do short of reading someone's mind. Even if you didn't have to have one to get a GRC it seems pretty basic that you would have to have one if you were going to prison for a violent or sexually motivated crime. How that didn't happen for Karen White is a disgrace.

What's the difference between a man with a penis....and a transwoman with a penis

this

With bells on! Why are some penis owners seeking privileges that the other class of penis owners don't have?

Yes, not all trans women are criminals, obviously. Neither are all men. But the men still understand and accept that they aren't allowed in women's spaces for this rain reason.

What about young attractive lads sent to male prisons? Should we put them in the women's prison too to protect them?

You can't have a sliding scale of what is a woman.

Seems like a lot of people who call themselves gender critical think you can.

I can't see how to balance the rights of everyone as it stands

Well putting someone with a penis and a history of sex attacks against women in a women’s prison is only considering the rights of the offender.