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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Alison Moyet

218 replies

Penny1976 · 03/10/2018 14:11

Welcome to the sisterhood.

"I am thankful for activists both pro and anti women’s rights.
You have focussed my mind with your love and your hate.
I am officially radicalised.
#Feminist"

OP posts:
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7
Judder · 04/10/2018 20:29

She gets it, but she has just been told a load lies about 'terfs' by some people and it has made her question whether she knows the whole story.

Note: she NEVER says transgender, she always says transsexual, so bear in mind that when she says 'trans women are women' she means the proper ones with gender dysphoria, not wider trans umbrella of cross dressers etc..

In a post just now she said: "Trans women to me are women and I have always accorded them their respect and dignity. Re self ID without any parameters there are questions that should be raised if women need to. Trans women too can be affronted when their struggles have been diluted for any man." So she acknowledges that self id is problematic for women and trans alike.

Elephantinacravat · 04/10/2018 20:29

I don't get it when women say 'I'm perfectly happy to share a toilet with a transwoman'. I mean that's great for them.... But what about the women who are uncomfortable sharing with male bodied people for whatever reason?

I don't know what to make of the letter, but at least she is not saying 'transwomen are women #nodebate'

Redkeyboard · 04/10/2018 20:33

I have great respect for her and admire her for thinking things through and coming to her own conclusions in her own time. Also for standing up for debate.

The questions are:

What is a transwoman? Is it every man who says he is a woman for whatever reason?

How do you balance women’s rights to exclude males for privacy, safety or fairness?

If your answers are yes a transwoman is any man who says he is a woman + TW must not ever be excluded for any reason unlike other men. Then you are handing the power to any man to dissolve that right simply by saying ‘I am a woman now’.

If he wants to he can take away any woman or girls’ right to women only sport, private single sex changing area, female doctor, women only refuge, single sex hospital ward, female rape counsellor, etc etc

Ambroise · 04/10/2018 20:41

twitter.com/alisonmoyet/status/1047933884778909696

Just announced she's leaving Twitter.

SirVixofVixHall · 04/10/2018 20:52

Agree Redkeyboard

WarmWishes · 04/10/2018 20:54

Perhaps she is finding the whole thing too stressful. I wouldn't blame her.

ToeToToe · 04/10/2018 20:55

Well, that's another woman silenced then.

SirVixofVixHall · 04/10/2018 20:57

Also surely the point is not whether an individual woman is happy to share space, but that many women are not happy, for very good reasons. Reasons that might include prior rape, violence, sexual abuse, or religious belief. If a women has had the luck to never feel truly terrified of a man, then that is wonderful for her, but it shouldn’t colour how we organise our single sex spaces. It doesn’t change the reasons why we have them in the first place.

Bowlofbabelfish · 04/10/2018 21:18

Just announced she's leaving Twitter.

I don’t blame her. It’s pointlessly toxic on twitter for anyone in the public eye who is expressing a gender critical view just now.

Raising a cup of tea to you Alison, and I hope you find your way here (if you aren’t already, I suspect you are...)

AdultHumanFemaleXX · 04/10/2018 21:21

This is a real shame, I thought Alison had been radicalised? I wonder what she must have been put through since signing the letter...it must be hell being a female in the public eye taking a stand on this issue. I hope she will just get her head together & do more research. There is no way you ever go back from #PeakTrans.

UpstartCrow · 04/10/2018 21:23

I would love to know what went on behind the scenes to cause her to back down, issue that statement, and leave Twitter.

Popchyk · 04/10/2018 21:26

Alison's words on Twitter demonstrate female socialisation quite neatly.

Some people have said that they have hurt feelings so her reaction to that is to give up her own space and withdraw.

FlyMaybe · 04/10/2018 21:26

NOOOOOOO!!!!

Sad
SirVixofVixHall · 04/10/2018 21:31

Sad that she is leaving twitter over this, but not surprising. It is really hard when you’ve always stood up for minorities, to suddenly find that you are being called a bigot. Transactivists know this and exploit it.

RedToothBrush · 04/10/2018 21:35

Just announced she's leaving Twitter.

That looks more like, 'my PR team are taking over my official twitter account'.

I'm reading that as meaning, her personal opinions and her career interests seem to have hit a point of conflict.

PurpleCrowbar · 04/10/2018 21:43

I think she sounds scared. Don't blame her. I'm scared about being openly gender critical on social media, & I'm nobody - she's absolutely a target for all those little AWA rat eyes in the dark.

People can see what's happened here. More visibility is always good.

Haworthia · 04/10/2018 21:45

I think it’s fairly obvious that AM doesn’t really believe that TWAW, but she’s forced to say that to save face/slow down the abuse and harassment. She can’t win, whatever she says.

I figured her Twitter was being heavily monitored by TRAs/MRAs when something she tweeted about period poverty was turned into “but what about the menz?” I think something she tweeted about FGM was treated similarly? Hmm

I don’t blame her for leaving Twitter.

TerfedOff · 04/10/2018 21:51

She does sound scared.

It is scary.

I hope she's ok.

I went though a period of intense anxiety about all this.

At the end of the day she has to prioritise herself and her family.

Bowlofbabelfish · 04/10/2018 21:55

Oh I just read the statement...

Was she threatened I wonder?

IdahoCrow · 04/10/2018 21:57

Twitter is a toxic soup for women. One day historians will study this sort of TRA aggressive shit as a turning point though, as a chapter in the story of how the UK destroyed itself from within.

doctorbarbie · 04/10/2018 22:02

First she had to apologise and now she has to leave. Sounds exactly like something the Dr would want/threaten. I'm not suggesting he was involved but his tactics have certainly been disseminated.

Or maybe she thought fuck it. She apologised to appease the TRAs and then our lot got angry.

Either way, she sounds like she's been kidnapped and is communicating from an underground bunker.

raisinsraisins · 04/10/2018 22:04

Her manager might have told her that she’ll lose fans if she carries on putting her viewpoints on Twitter.

Or, totally different issue, but similar to pop stars having to apologise for having a tour date in Israel, saying they made a mistake, will cancel and not do it again. Seems like everything now has to go with the popular opinion on Twitter, without really having knowledge or investigating facts.

OlennasWimple · 04/10/2018 22:05

Always loved her. Love her even more now

DayMay · 04/10/2018 22:06

Wine Alison.

This demonstrates the point Johnny made today on R4.

Mingmoo · 04/10/2018 22:07

Absolutely devastated for her. She is such a lovely person. I sometimes find the rhetoric here a bit farfetched and I think it can be deeply insulting but I've come to realise it doesn't matter how gently we raise our objections or try to explain that there are ramifications to trans ideology that need to be discussed. The very idea of questioning it is forbidden. There's no ideology so perfect that it can't benefit from being tested and questioned. These people are not acting in good faith and it grieves me to see the willing fools of young women who think they will get some kind of reward by throwing away their rights and hard-won opportunities.