Go on then, see if you can peak trans me...

[Rightlikeagirl]

I've come across so many of these threads at the moment on mumsnet and I'm interested/intrigued in them because I have never seen trans women (or men) as a problem. They don't affect my day to day life at all. In fact I don't believe I've ever met a trans woman in real life, that I know of anyway.

I'm struggling to understand why it makes women so angry and also why men seem to be so universally hated on here in general. I've just been reading a thread about how they fear women and how they fear them having a voice and doing better than them. This just does not ring true for me - the men I know I just not like this!

Anyway I'm prepared to listen and find out more about this subject. I don't think you will actually peak trans me though...

If you've read all about it and don't give a shit, what else is to be said?

You've probably already picked up that it's not "all trans people" who threaten us, it's the nature of transgender ideology and self-ID.

Women's sports, refuges, scholarships, single-sex opportunities, protections, spaces, legal definitions, all technically and increasingly really lost, because being a woman is apparently now a feeling inside, not a material reality.

But you don't care. So what's the point of talking?

There's a thread right next to this one : "What peak transed you?". Have a look. I think it's a bit rude to expect anyone else to do the heavy lifting for you HTH

One thing to look at is the cotton ceiling. It's the expectation that lesbians should be open to dating people with a female penis. They get abused and called bigots for being lesbians. It comes across as the TRA version of the friend zone. It's homophobic.

What makes you think men are universally hated? That's not the case at all. Many of us are married to men or have sons who we love.

I am happy for you that your life has been unaffected by the trans issue. I am not going to try to peak trans you, as you put it. It's for you to engage your own intellect. There are many threads you can read, on topics ranging from women's prisons to healthcare; from privacy to changing rooms; from education to medical side effects. And so forth. Plus, there's no shortage of news articles, with varying degrees of analysis and various viewpoints put across. Read, look at all sides of the argument, and form your opinions.

I'm struggling to understand why it makes women so angry and also why men seem to be so universally hated on here in general

Stopped reading after this.

I see you 🐟

They don't affect my day to day life at all

Well here’s your fucking problem then. You don’t have an ounce of empathy. Imagine you’re a woman locked up in a prison with a male rapist paedophile who was put there under the name of “trans rights”. If you can’t see how that might be problem for other people you might as well just fuck off without bothering.

I haven't read everything and a lot of it is using terminology I don't understand and talking about people I've never heard of and situations that have occurred that I know nothing about. I've literally just heard the expression "peak trans".

The thread about What peak transed peopled I think is aimed at people that know a lot about the subject. I'm interested in learning more but at the moment really can't imagine being opposed to trans people in general. Much of it I totally get but what about someone who genuinely does feel better living as a women and is on the verge of suicide until this decision is made and is therefore much happier? How do we make these people and all women feel safe?

From your OP (first post on Mumsnet? ) I would guess that you haven't actually read many of the threads on here - scanning through the titles doesn't count.

Ok so I'm very slow at typing and there have been some responses while I typed the last post. I'll look those up @NoProbLlama78 and read about them thank you.

No idea what the fish is in reference too?

Anyway, maybe I should have called this thread something else but had just learnt the term! But there a lot of people here that are knowledgeable and passionate on the subject and I am interested in hearing more about it. I literally do not know where to start!

If you are genuine though.

What peaked me was doing what they said to do...read their side.

So I read trans subreddits, forums, personal websites, Medium pieces, twitter pages etc

Never before have I come across so many dicks, figuratively and literally.

And that was a few years ago. Only got worse since.

I will do that too then @TinyRick
(Still confused about the fish)

That was me as well
I read chat forums and Reddit and realised how much women were hated
I don't believe you are genuine though

Ah, "man haters". Yes. I missed your goady username too. More fool me.

For anyone else reading, the suicide stats are fucking dubious at best and absolutely lied about at worst. Start there. (They're also not relevant to most of the people under stonewall's definitions of "trans" which includes cross-dressers.)

No idea what the fish relates to

I think I'm in quite a similar place to you op. A lot of peak trans posts on here refer to things or use acronyms I don't fully understand so it's hard to understand points of view.
However I think it's more the self id thing that peak trans' people. Again I have little understanding, but I believe people can legally id as what they like. This threatens women more so than men as a woman iding as a man can be a lot less intimidating or threatening than the other way around. I've struggled to understand why people would do it if it weren't for genuine reasons and then I came across a banker who is a man who sometimes ids as a woman. He was nominated in a top female list recently. This frustrated me as for all intents and purposes he is a male. He sometimes wears a dress and sometimes calls himself Pips. To me this doesn't make him a woman. Women are fighting to get more equality in pay and senior roles and to me it feels a bit of a piss take that he is recognised as being female because surely that skews everything. It's like a huge company having only males on the directors, realising it shows gender inequality so gets a few of them to put dresses on and self id as women. I truly didn't think this would happen but it does.
The other thing that infuriated me about the article was that this person seemed to make a ridicule of women's clothes. Honestly the dress they were pictured in was horrific. Garish, pink, ott. It made me cross because most women I know who hols senior roles would never dream to dress like that. It gave the distinct impression to me of a hugely stereotyped woman. That made me cross because it felt like the self id thing was being done not for genuine reasons, but for personal gain. And that's what sits uncomfortably for me. When people self id to access things for personal gain. Male rapists in female prisons for example.

In Sweden in May 2013, 22 year old Kristoffer Johansson killed his 20 year old ex-girlfriend Vatchareeya Bangsuan when she was out jogging, by stabbing her to death, dismembering her body and scattering her body parts in the woods which were later found by the military. He was sentenced to 14 years in prison. The court of appeal lowered the sentence to ten years.

Five years later Kristoffer identifies as a woman and calls himself Kim Marie. During his time in prison he has been in the Class 1 section, the highest security class reserved for male prisoners only. In August 2018 the Swedish Prison and Probation service took the decision to potentially allow Kim Marie to transfer to a women’s prison.

During her time in prison Kim Johansson has been guilty of repeated misconduct, resulting in 34 warnings, mainly for work refusal but also for drug possession.

At the start of her prison sentence, the Prison and Probation service compiled a risk profile and reached the conclusion that the risk that Kim would commit acts of violence and threaten others was high.

The risk profile says “Things worthy of note include the nature of their crime, their interest in weapons, warfare and explosives, their ability to function personality-wise with inadequate emotional resources, inflexible thinking patterns, a vulnerability to stress and a difficulty dealing with social interactions”.

Kim will therefore most likely be moved to a women’s prison which is communal in nature and has less security, as Class 1 does not exist in the women’s estate in Sweden.

Why are some places segregated by sex? What is the reason for that?

There are places where i do not expect to find people with penises who can overpower me.

I have requested a female therapist at the moment because i have been bereaved and am experiencing dysfunctional crushes on men. I don't expect to have a therapist assigned to me who is male bodied, because i need for that not to happen. Does a trans therapist's need for other people to accept them unquestioningly as female trump my need?

Rightlikeagirl, tbh, I think you're probably going to get pretty short shrift with an opener like that. We've had a number of threads started with the same gist, and the suggestion of hating all men or all transpeople is going to put backs up from the get go.

But, I'm fairly mellow this morning, so I'll give you some pointers. A good thread to start with is titled Break it down for me - someone may kindly provide a link, but it should be on the first page or at least the second if you look for it. It's an introduction to why this is important to so many.

I don't want to 'peak trans' you. I think it's a popular phrase with a very limited usefulness. What I would like to do is encourage you to put women and girls at the centre of your thinking, and understand that this is really nothing to do with transanyone - the trans issue appears to be the way a lot of Anti-Woman Activists are attempting to chip away at, or dismantle entirely in some cases, the rights and protections women have fought for over a very long period of time.

Sex-based rights and services are very important for women globally, and the reason is because it is our biology that puts us at a disadvantage. If you remove our ability to point this out by making the term 'woman' refer to a feeling in a man's head, then you go a long way to destroying those rights and protections.

Anyway, I need to start work. I hope you engage with this.

On the men-hating thing, You have been lucky in your choice of men but those who’ve experienced years of physical & emotional abuse have every right to express their anger. Half the joy of this board is being able to vent about one more lying cheating thieving git of a man. . Women who are happy & loved up don’t vent so you hear less from them.
As for men fearing women, my dad resented us all. He fought to stop us being more successful than him. He didn’t believe in the education of women, women were there to cook and clean. He did all he could to stop my mum driving, having any kind of freedom, stop us getting degrees or financial independence, he needed to control women and when we refused to be controlled, he responded with fury. There are plenty of men who are like that. If you’ve never met one, you are very fortunate.
On the trans thing, I’m still on the fence because I only know of one person and he transitioned 25 years ago, very quietly and discreetly and couldn’t have been less of a threat. But the theoretical danger is obvious Also consider that Business Woman of the year 2018 went to a male banker who wears a dress two days a week. Jokes aside, that’s a much needed loan for a business woman, which has gone to a man! Glass ceiling any one?

I'm struggling to understand why it makes women so angry and also why men seem to be so universally hated on here in general.

Yeah, you haven't been reading.

Bit goady but there we are. Anyway the men who made these threats are walking the streets now. This is the campaign for Self ID.

I mean, good luck standing next to the edge of a train platform wearing an adult human female tee-shirt if one of these charmers rocks up.

I won't be attempting to provide you with all the facts on this thread but have you read the links on the "break it down for me" thread?

I also have no direct problems in my life due to trans people and I am 100% supportive of their right to be safe and live their lives without discrimination.

It is very important to realise that most trans people are not behind or well represented by the anti-women activists (AWAs) who shout loudest on these issues.

The main issues for me are:

1. the dangers to women and girls will not come directly from trans people themselves specifically. However the combination of an environment where no one can be excluded from a space in case their feelings are hurt, and teaching girls that they mustn't trust their instincts if they feel unsafe as those instincts are transphobic, will reduce our ability to be safe.

2. education materials on trans issues are embedding sexist stereotypes in children. Instead of breaking down sexist ideas that girls should dress/behave/enjoy "girly" ways and boys should dress/behave/enjoy "boy" ways - now the pressure is on that if you are a girl who likes the boy stuff or a boy who likes the girl stuff you must be trans and your body is wrong and you need medication and surgery. This is every kind of wrong and yes it is happening.

3. sexism exists in the workplace. Women continue to be sacked and not selected for promotion because of either conscious or unconscious bias about how their biology will affect their work (assumptions about fluctuating productivity according to monthly cycles, and their needs for maternity leave and assumptions that they won't prioritise work over family issues). This is not a thing of the past. Trans men and nonbinary people with XX chromosomes will be just as affected by these issues and will suffer these discriminations not because they are trans but because they have XX chromosomes. Trans women and non-binary people with XY chromosomes are not affected by these particular issues. (a) in fighting sexism we need a word that describes all the people being disadvantaged by sexism. It used to be "women" but we aren't allowed to use that word to mean people with XX chromosomes now. How can we fight sexism when we have no word for who we are fighting for? This silences us. (b) such protections and opportunities that have already been put in place to help overcome centuries of sexism by providing a leg up for women (all women shortlists, awards for women in specific fields) are now disproportionately being taken by transwomen. I don't have exact stats but for illustration - if 0.1% of women are transwomen and 5% of the people selected for a women's opportunity (eg an all-women shortlist) are transwomen, that means that on average a transwoman has a 5000% better chance of being selected than an XX woman. XX women are socialised to be nice and quiet and allow others a chance to speak. Our opportunities to counter that are being enthusiastically grabbed by people who haven't received that socialisation due to their XY chromosomes.

There's plenty more but enough for one post. Please continue to engage here @Rightlikeagirl - this isn't an echo chamber and if you disagree with any of these points or any others made by other posters we genuinely want to know why. It gets quite tiring how man threads we see that go
OP- why are you all so nasty and hateful
Us- we don't hate anyone. These are our valid concerns
OP- mean! Nasty! Transphobic!
(No attempt to engage or address concerns)

Please don't let this be yet another.

Women are accused of being "man hating" when they expect a normal level of human decency from men, and are not prepared to make allowances for them because "that's just how men are".

I think your question is interesting is a little provocative, but I don't understand why you are conflating "man hating" and "peak transing". Can you explain?

Google Karen White / Stephen Wood.