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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Go on then, see if you can peak trans me...

240 replies

Rightlikeagirl · 30/09/2018 06:19

I've come across so many of these threads at the moment on mumsnet and I'm interested/intrigued in them because I have never seen trans women (or men) as a problem. They don't affect my day to day life at all. In fact I don't believe I've ever met a trans woman in real life, that I know of anyway.

I'm struggling to understand why it makes women so angry and also why men seem to be so universally hated on here in general. I've just been reading a thread about how they fear women and how they fear them having a voice and doing better than them. This just does not ring true for me - the men I know I just not like this!

Anyway I'm prepared to listen and find out more about this subject. I don't think you will actually peak trans me though...

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
YetAnotherSpartacus · 30/09/2018 12:26

Lila's erection made me feel sick. All these girls were being vilified for not wanting to change with Lila and Lila was playing the victim oh-so-nicely and then had the absolute audacity to parade for the cameras with a partly erect cock. Lila knew what Lila wanted and what Lila was doing aaaaalll along. So did the girls. But guess who had the power?

FesteringCarbuncle · 30/09/2018 14:48

I saw Lila Perry on the news and I was thinking am I the only person seeing that semi swinging freely under a short skirt
Lila had also been reported for sleezy behaviour towards girls
I do not believe for one minute Lila has dysphoria. They seem proud of their penis

ScienceRoar · 30/09/2018 15:46

Women feel safe among women; men have to earn our trust.
The expectation that declaring oneself a woman is sufficient to earn our trust.

@RightLikeAGirl are you a man? See the quote below

"Guys ask why women are so pissed off. Even guys with wives and daughters.

Jackson Katz, a prominent social researcher, illustrates why. He's done it with hundreds of audiences:

"I draw a line down the middle of a chalkboard, sketching a male symbol on one side and a female symbol on the other.
Then I ask just the men: What steps do you guys take, on a daily basis, to prevent yourselves from being sexually assaulted? At first there is a kind of awkward silence as the men try to figure out if they've been asked a trick question. The silence gives way to a smattering of nervous laughter.

Occasionally, a young a guy will raise his hand and say, 'I stay out of prison.' This is typically followed by another moment of laughter, before someone finally raises his hand and soberly states, 'Nothing. I don't think about it.'

Then I ask the women the same question. What steps do you take on a daily basis to prevent yourselves from being sexually assaulted? Women throughout the audience immediately start raising their hands. As the men sit in stunned silence, the women recount safety precautions they take as part of their daily routine.

Hold my keys as a potential weapon. Look in the back seat of the car before getting in. Carry a cell phone. Don't go jogging at night. Lock all the windows when I sleep, even on hot summer nights. Be careful not to drink too much. Don't put my drink down and come back to it; make sure I see it being poured. Own a big dog. Carry Mace or pepper spray. Have an unlisted phone number. Have a man's voice on my answering machine. Park in well-lit areas. Don't use parking garages. Don't get on elevators with only one man, or with a group of men. Vary my route home from work. Watch what I wear. Don't use highway rest areas. Use a home alarm system. Don't wear headphones when jogging. Avoid forests or wooded areas, even in the daytime. Don't take a first-floor apartment. Go out in groups. Own a firearm. Meet men on first dates in public places. Make sure to have a car or cab fare. Don't make eye contact with men on the street. Make assertive eye contact with men on the street.”

― Jackson Katz, The Macho Paradox: Why Some Men Hurt Women and How All Men Can Help (The first man to minor in women's studies at the University of Massachusetts-Amherst, holds a master's degree from the Harvard Graduate School of Education, and a Ph.D. in cultural studies and education from UCLA.)

LittlePearl · 30/09/2018 15:49

If you're really serious OP this is a helpful video:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=sowoe71lB6A

I don't hate men. I have adult sons, a great father and a lovely husband. But I recognise that many, many women have had terrible experiences at the hands of men and this is about dignity, privacy and safety for ALL women.

DisrespectfulAdultFemale · 30/09/2018 15:51

I don't think you will actually peak trans me though...

Biscuit

If MN had a yawn emoji, I would post that instead.

ToeToToe · 30/09/2018 16:08

Stephonknee. Yeah - I'd forgotten one on my long list on the peaktrans thread.

Yup. If that doesn't peak trans you, nothing will.

And if it doesn't peak trans you - your motives are suspect. Sorry if the truth hurts.

ToeToToe · 30/09/2018 16:11

Stefonknee.

Rightlikeagirl · 30/09/2018 18:53

Really helpful and interesting video thanks @LittlePearl

OP posts:
Datun · 30/09/2018 19:29

ScienceRoar

I remember seeing a clip of that talk.

It's absolutely true. But it's so ingrained, we don't even think. It's just like breathing.

On my porch, I have kept my son's army cadet boots, a whopping size 13. He hasn't worn them in eight years, but I keep them there so people think that there is a massive bloke in the house.

Every now and then, I reorganise the porch - flower pot, milk bottle holder, door mat, broom. I pick the boots up to get rid of them, then I put them back. Just in case...

ButtermilkBiscuits · 30/09/2018 19:35

Lily Madigan...just read about Lily Madigan. Lily is a Labour Party women's officer who uses the platform to attack and silence women whilst promoting a solely transgender agenda. Lily has absolutely zero interest in women's issues, and I can only presume it's because Lily isn't one.

UpstartCrow · 30/09/2018 19:41

I'm not going to try to peak trans the OP. If OP is female, at some point she will get what we are talking about. I just hope it won't be too late.

FowlerThanFowl · 30/09/2018 19:51

Datun that's a bloody good idea. Tonight I'm fuming that my child's school has disclosed my email address to my ex despite me explaining he can't know due to DV. His only method of torture now we are separated is coercive control which he does via email or my solicitor. By having an email he didn't know I felt safer as he can't contact me direct and my solicitor filters the abuse. I'm so angry. Every day I'm hyper vigilant incase he or his family come after me. Checking doors and windows all the time, changing my route home and not answering calls if I don't recognise the number. I live in perpetual fear and I'm wary of any man as a result. It's shit.

Datun · 30/09/2018 19:55

FowlerThanFowl

That is bloody shit. How dare they. I know you can get another email address but what a fucking nuisance.

Poppyred85 · 30/09/2018 20:25

Fowl I’m really sorry to hear that. If you feel able to I would consider making a complaint to the head and ask what steps they personally are going to take to make sure something like that doesn’t happen again. They have potentially endangered you and your children. They need to understand how serious this is. If they don’t or you feel you can’t, and you still have social services or MARAC worker involved get them to speak to them. This is basic safeguarding.

As for peak transing, I’m not sure I have yet. I thought I had when I first read about how I’m now supposedly a ciswoman. Then I read about Danielle Muscato and thought I’d peaked, then Jenni Murray. Every time I think I’ve peaked, I turn around and there’s another bloody peak ahead of me.

leonaza · 30/09/2018 20:50

I guess I'm just wondering what is the solution for the poor people that just want to "quietly transition" as a PP put it?

The current situation is that someone transitioning has to live as that gender for two years and be undergoing treatment before they can legally ID as a woman. That is not a long time to wait, and you don't have to ever have surgery or actually physically transition to maintain that identification.

The difference is now people would be able to claim that legal identity simply by filling in a form. Ie, anyone can do that. A huge concern of many women here is not, as trans activists often claim, that trans people pose a danger, it's the access that that can grant to anyone, and no one will be able to challenge it.

Is it worth exposing women and girls to this risk so trans people don't have to wait a mere two years or show any proof they are in fact living as that gender? Even many trans people themselves don't think so. And if you aren't actually living as a woman, why would you want access to their spaces?

This isn't just a loophole, this is a chasm being blasted through women's rights.

Not to mention the move against the word woman or the idea that not all women have female biology. How will we be able to argue a policy is discriminatory against women - for example lack of provision of cervical screening, or abortion, or even the tampon tax - if opponents can counter that not all women have cervixes. The implications of this are so deep - sorry to go on, once you start looking into all of this you can't really go back.. Smile good luck with your research!

CharlieParley · 30/09/2018 21:15

@Rightlikeagirl

Thank you for your question. And thanks to all of the posters who have replied so far. As always, these responses are most informative, well argued, eloquent or distilled to the bare minimum. Collossal effort and well worth the energy, for sure.

But I'm sorry to say that I do not wish to peaktrans you. It's not a happy place to be.

I've learned so very much since I peaktransed last September, following the assault on Skepticat. What seemed like literally every progressive organisation, journalists and political party members were publicly coming out and applauding the violence, saying a 60 year old woman deserved to be beat up by those three males. She was guilty of transphobia, after all, because she wanted to attend a women's meeting about wanting to uphold existing women's rights.

Ignorance really is bliss on this issue. I just spent ages explaining to someone how sex self-identification is harming so many women and girls in this country already. With evidence and sources. Without a single word remotely negative about trans people in general, and no bad word about individual trans people apart from the documented cases of rapists put into women's prison.

The response? You don't care about individuals, do you. You just don't have any empathy. And once again being told that a discussion solely about the reality and danger of male violence to women and girls is a clear sign of my transphobia, bigotry and extreme right wing, conservative mindset.

Sometimes I wish I hadn't peaktransed. I really do.

SmellyHead · 30/09/2018 21:38

I've leant towards radical feminism all my life. For me, gender is a deeply damaging construct which forces boys to perform a competitive, physically aggressive and emotionally repressed form of masculinity which causes them enormous harm and heavily contributes to both the male suicide rate and violence, among other symptoms of their distress. For girls, well, we all know what gender norms do to us. One of the biggest problems I have with the language and requirements of current transgender thinking is that it enforces the rules of gender stereotyping - little boys who like shiny things and who aren't naturally comfortable with hyper-competitiveness etc are told they must be trans; that's not fair.

There is more than one type of male and one type of female and people should be able to human however they fucking well like without some fool telling them that their bodies are wrong.

waterlego6064 · 30/09/2018 22:22

people should be able to human however they fucking well like I love this.

Charlie, I hear you. I spent a while very politely arguing with some strangers on FB recently about the dismissal of the guide leader. (Sorry, I’ve forgotten her name, I know she posts). I was relentlessly polite. I avoided generalisations, I didn’t make personal, hateful or mocking comments about trans people, I didn’t misgender anyone. I simply said that it was difficult for me to understand how transwomen are actually women, and could they please just answer at least one or two of my questions (I had lots, all phrases respectfully)

I patiently explained the issues as gender critics see them. I didn’t even link to articles about trans woman criminals and sex offenders, because I’m so ridiculously conditioned to skirt around issues so as not to upset or anger people. I am terrified of confrontation of any type.

The response to my attempt at debate was being called a bigot, a dick, told to fuck off, accused of having a personality disorder, lying and being manipulative. And this was not a public comment thread on a large page, it was on a friend’s page. She does have a lot of FB friends, but even so.

I was gutted, actually, because even though I know they are totally wrong in their views, and directing their anger the wrong way; I still found it hurtful.

I peak transed a long time ago, but I have intermittently tried to hash out the argument with a TRA on a twitter or FB. Because ultimately, I believe in debate and democracy and the power of communication and dialogue. But I don’t think I have the energy to try to engage with any of them ever again.

SmellyHead · 30/09/2018 22:53

I would find it hurtful too Waterlego Thanks The idea of being attacked like that really inhibits me on facebook.

CharlieParley · 01/10/2018 00:59

waterlego thank you for your kind words. It really can be disheartening sometimes, but I feel better now. What happened in Leeds might just be the catalyst we need to reach critical mass.

TinyRick · 01/10/2018 02:45

Just watched the Lila video.

The comments have real transphobia in them. That's what it looks like. NOT here on MN. Never read anything remotely resembling what it written in the YT comments, here.

I also added a bonus pic of vitriol towards feminists too 🙄

Go on then, see if you can peak trans me...
Go on then, see if you can peak trans me...
Go on then, see if you can peak trans me...
tillytop · 01/10/2018 06:28

Perfect example of male privilege. Lila 4.05> Pure and simple bigotry. I think that they are using the claim that they are uncomfortable as an excuse to target me
So when Lila is uncomfortable, Lila's feelings are important and real. When the girls claim they are uncomfortable it's just an excuse.

tillytop · 01/10/2018 06:48

Stefonknee, the "six year old girl". Isn't that a different issue altogether, from adult to child? Why is Stefonknee linking it with transgender issues?

tillytop · 01/10/2018 06:49

And fwiw, I don't think OP is a woman.

NotANotMan · 01/10/2018 06:57

Stefonknee, the "six year old girl". Isn't that a different issue altogether, from adult to child? Why is Stefonknee linking it with transgender issues?

Confused

Stephonknee is a man. Who identifies as a female child. You don't see how that's linked to transgender issues?

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