Girl guiding email to parents.

[Wildboar]

Has anyone seen the mass email sent out this evening? They haven’t acknowledged any concerns put to them. All they have stated that there is no risk and they won’t inform parents of transgender members due to data protection laws.

Girlguiding said the law around transgender issues was "new and complex" and that it will continue to review its policies against the latest advice and guidance.

So this is how they will frame any policy changes. It will be because “the latest advice has changed” rather than because they are unable or unwilling to evaluate the value of that advice against the needs of girls.

I'm intrigued as to how the latest advice "has changed". Do they mean the people they were listening to have now said "Oops, lawks, we've now realised what we told was completely against all safeguarding principles" or do they mean "Jeez, we've had a right pasting and realised the people we were listening to without any regard to the safeguarding of girls might not have those girls' best interests in mind...'?

What is the new law around transgender issues? I didn't think there was. Have certain people been overegging the law?

A little while before the expulsion of two guide leaders, I wrote to GirlGuiding to ask what their policy is for inclusion of transgirls in events.
Their first reply was about the case by case assessment i.e. the buck stops with local guide leaders.

I pointed out that they have a general policy on the inclusion of male children and helpers, which leaders refer to. I asked- What is their general policy on the inclusion of male transgirls and transwoman leaders?

Here is their reply :

Thank you for your further contact. I am very sorry for the continued delay in providing you with a response.

Please be advised that we are currently reviewing the points you’ve raised; however we will need a little longer than usual in order to provide you with a fully considered response.

We appreciate your patience whilst we review your question and please be assured that we will be in touch again soon.

Best wishes,

Information & Complaints Administrator
Information, Enquiries & Complaints Team.

And now they have produced their "fully considered response"??

What is the new law around transgender issues? I didn't think there was. Have certain people been overegging the law?

Yes, indeed - what are they on about? With regard to children, there's no "law" to speak of - is there?

The law is the Equality Act 2010, which has been in place since 2010, so no. Not new at all.

Maybe they mean that they're waiting to see the outcome of the consultation before deciding whether to apologize or gloat.

Girlguiding said the law around transgender issues was "new and complex" and that it will continue to review its policies against the latest advice and guidance.

And if this is the line they choose to spin, then they need to evofence which advice and guidance has changed.

*evidence

Has anyone had a reply back from GG? I emailed several specific questions about safeguarding and have heard nothing back.

I emailed my questions to a senior guide in the area who has acknowledged it and forwarded it on to the county commissioner.
Many leaders must have safeguarding concerns. If parents write through the local structures it might support leaders in raising their concerns?

Long interview with Helen in today's Mail on Sunday

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6222859/Guide-leader-says-sacked-telling-bosses-new-transgender-policies-pose-risk.html

At the end of that thorough interview with Helen, GG response is the same mantra as in their mass email to parents "Simply being transgender does not make someone more of a safeguarding risk than any other person".

Since when does being transgender make a MALE body LESS of a risk?

I still have the horrible feeling it's going to take something horrific happening for them to see what the issue is.
It will kill the guides when it happens tho. They've proved they intend listen or care and they'll end up sued into oblivion.

They know what the issue is, Klutzy. They know. You can see it in that line Hiveofmums quoted above. The wording has clearly been deliberately chosen to skirt around the issue. They know they can’t say that transwomen present no greater threat than natal women because that is provably untrue, so they resort to ‘people’ instead. So they are aware there is a safeguarding issue and have carefully picked their words to hide it. This isn’t a misunderstanding: they know.

MipMipMip

Scouts is already mixed sex and their policy is also to treat a trans child in their "preferred gender" but their safeguarding rules are a lot stronger and still recognise that boys and girls can make babies, talk about all children being comfortable, and also about talking to parents and children about mixed sex sharing, as opposed to GG policy of transgirls are literally girls so there are no safeguarding considerations, chiildren and parents must not be informed if their DD will be sleeping with someone with a cock etc

Scouts did have some disturbing "advice" eg that transboys may need to stay out of some activitieis as they can't breathe properly due to binders

WTF anyone writing that without a second thought needs to give their head a wobble

Hello restrictive corsets and limitations to daily activities

Binders are very appealing to many girls irrespective of gender as they might avert the male gaze for some more time...

Scouts:

"How do I make my Section inclusive?
Avoid gender stereotyping (e.g. boys like football, girls like the colour pink).
When addressing the whole Section/Unit, gender neutral terms will help to support an open and inclusive environment. For example, use "hello everybody" instead of "hello gentlemen" or talking to a group of female Scouts as "ladies".
Don’t split young people by gender in any activities.
Allow young people to express their identity freely and don’t make assumptions."

This reads like it's about sexism. But NO >>> you only need to bother with this if you havebrave stunning children present. No need to bother with this with boring old cunty girls and dicky boys, and certainly no-one ever suggested it (ERM feminists shouting for decades??????????)

That's scouts.

Scouts guidance may have been updated to be more in line with guides?

No longer mentioning anything about other children being comfortable or maybe I'm reading a different part of the site

"What toilets should the young person use?
Unisex toilet facilities are preferable but often not available. Always be led by the preferences of the young person, around which facilities they feel most comfortable and safe using. Ideally, this would be a cubicle in facilities of their true gender, but they may wish to use the accessible/disabled toilet as an alternative. If using the accessible/disabled toilet is the young person’s preferred option, refer to and label toilets appropriately (e.g. ‘unisex/accessible toilets’ rather than ‘disabled’)
Be aware that young trans people may have a lot of anxiety around using toilet facilities, and may even avoid using the toilet or drinking. This can lead to ill health, so it is important to be aware of this and provide reassurance if needed, reminding that they can use whichever facilities they find most comfortable and at any time."

Girls however who may have anxiety around menstruation or may have been sexually abused just have to GET THE FUCK ON WITH IT AND NOT MAKE A FUSS.

This is NON TRIVIAL for older children.

SCOUTS

i think this has changed

"What about nights away, camps and trips?
Discuss options well in advance with the young person and others involved, whilst protecting the young person’s right to privacy. The principle is to make sure that everyone is comfortable with the arrangements. Be sensitive to the needs of the young person; avoid making them feel singled out or not respected.
As with all young people, confirm whether the young person is on any medication that they will need to take.
Consider having one named Leader who is aware of the young person’s biological sex and any treatment/medication they are on, who could provide support if medical treatment is needed. Ask the young person who they wish the leader to be; regardless of the leader’s gender.
How can I manage the sleeping arrangements? There is no rule in Scouting stating that young people must be split by gender for sleeping arrangements. Sleeping arrangements should be carefully planned, assessing the needs and ages of young people, and any risks. A young person may be binding their chests or wearing very tight underwear to flatten themselves. The chance to privately remove this clothing overnight is very important.

Some options to consider, risk assess and discuss with the young person/family, are as follows:
Sharing with other young people of their true gender (or their biological sex if they would prefer), either in large or small tents with their trusted friends.
Large tents with various sleeping compartments, discretely allocating the young person their own compartment for privacy.
Having their own tent / room"

NO REFERENCE to the comfort of other children?

Has anyone else read this before members.scouts.org.uk/supportresources/4228/gender-identity-supporting-young-people?cat=377,378&moduleID=10

I believe it has been updated so it removes references to all children being comfortable, include lots of stuff about medication that wasn't there before and some frankly bizarre comments about "media attention".

The MN idea that Scouts was a bit more sensible around safeguarding is no longer up to date I think.

At the end of that thorough interview with Helen, GG response is the same mantra as in their mass email to parents "Simply being transgender does not make someone more of a safeguarding risk than any other person".

And nor, Girlguiding, does it make a male any less of a safeguarding risk than any other male.

And a predatory male is much more likely to take advantage of a way to break through safeguarding than any other type of male.

So why are you suspending normal safeguarding practice for ANY male leader or teenage boy who says he identifies as female?

The intro to gender ID bit compares transgender to having a disability and says all reasonable adjusts must be made

"What is the law?
Gender reassignment is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act 2010, whether or not the person is undergoing medical treatment. This means that as with ‘disability’, organisations have a duty to make reasonable adjustments to ensure that trans Members can access Scouting, including anticipating the needs of any future members.

Other gender identity differences
A person may feel they do not belong to either gender (defining themselves as Gender Queer), or feel that neither term describes them accurately (‘gender-neutral’ or ‘Agender’), or even that they are female on some days and male on others, ‘gender fluidity’, "

They also say that trans includes anyone who has not started "presenting" in their "true" gender and includes genderfluid etc.

The reading of this is therefore that in Scouts (as is general trans activist preferneced):

No need to change name, clothes, shave, anything
If this person says they're a girl they're a girl
Need to go in with the girls at all times
No consideration as to how this feels for girls needs to be given (not mentioned anywhere)
Includes overnights and sharign sleeping

Scouts is 10.5 to 14 and explorers 14 to 18.

This means an 18 yo boy who looks like a boy, talks like a boy, heterosexual, 6ft+ tall could be bunked in with a 14 yo girl and there's nothing she can do about it.

Same as guides but I think guides would expect them to at least put a dress on? (Although girls wear trousers all teh time so whatever).

Of course putting on a dress and saying call me Alice doesn't actally change a boy into a girl >
But with scouts there is no need to even bother with that which might at leats have put a few chancers off

The aim here is to have NO BARRIERS and having been on some queer theory threads recently this is the political idogolgy of the movements, all "barriers" are "bad" my definition and must be "queered". It's got nothng to do with troubled children.

"It will kill the guides when it happens tho. They've proved they intend listen or care and they'll end up sued into oblivion."

They know what will happen.
They don't care.
The safety of women and girls has always been less important than the desires of men.
Sex offences against women adn girls are still not really considered very important by the "authorities" and they know that too. The reason they are not seen as important is because "boys will be boys" and she should have known better + boys make mistakes and don't deserve to have their lives ruined etc.
Big intersection in GG approach and the feminist critique of rape culture.

OOP s quoted the wrong bit!

Meant to quote another post about it taking a disaster.