Girl guiding email to parents.

[Wildboar]

Has anyone seen the mass email sent out this evening? They haven’t acknowledged any concerns put to them. All they have stated that there is no risk and they won’t inform parents of transgender members due to data protection laws.

There has already been at least one case reported to police that demonstrated the Girl Guides are wrong in asserting there is no risk.

A 14yo boy who had previously been suspended for sending unsolicited dick pics to girls in his school, self-identified as a girl shortly thereafter. The school had one of those trans-led inclusion policies and he was given full access to all single-sex spaces for girls in the school. He then traumatised an 11yo girl who found herself alone in the changing rooms with him by getting his penis out and masturbating right in front of her.

The mother reported this to the school, to the police and tried desperately to raise awareness of how dangerous a no-questions-asked affirmation policy was to females. The police did investigate but no one in power gave a shit about that poor little girl or the danger to others.

The boy now no longer identifies as trans.

CharlieParley

Is this the situation which was dismissed by Stella Creasy MP?

Here's part of the conversation the mum had with an MP:

Yup, it was. And given that reaction and the parents being called transphobes for reporting it, I don't even want to guess how many cases like this go unreported now.

And given that reaction and the parents being called transphobes for reporting it, I don't even want to guess how many cases like this go unreported now.

It is a fundemental obstacle to effective Safeguarding and Child Protection.

cf Vulnerable female patient being treated for mental health January 2018:
(extract)
"A Lancaster mum whose bi-polar disorder left her believing men were conspiring to kill her said she was left terrified when she was locked on a women’s psychiatric ward with an “extremely male-bodied” transgender patient. Philippa Molloy, 42, said she was “genuinely, absolutely terrified” because she had suffered a relapse in her condition that made her irrationally terrified of men – including her own husband.
When she raised her concerns with hospital staff, however, she said she was not taken seriously and her medical notes implied that she was a “transphobic bigot”. She said the NHS had failed to think through the implications of allowing patients to self-identify their gender." (continues)

www.lancasterguardian.co.uk/news/lancaster-mum-with-fear-of-men-locked-on-hospital-ward-with-transgender-patient-1-8963648

I can’t believe that boy wasn’t prosecuted. That’s a disgrace. I don’t think I could send my daughter back to a school where that had happened. Poor little girl.

That case sounds horrific and completely avoidable. I know it would be hard and horrible but I wish the girls family would lawyer up and sue the hell out of the education authority. From everything I've read organisations and authorities are making these policies with no equality impact or risk assessments for girls or any other group. Our public policies have moved wholesale from segregating by sex (tried and tested with good reasons) to gender id segregated (new and unproven) without the consent of broader society. I'm not convinced it's legal.

From other tweets I remember seeing at the time, I got the impression that the boy was punished (what we normally think of as prosecution is not routinely done with children, they are typically dealt with in a system dedicated to children - like the Children's Panel in Scotland)

That kind of behaviour from the boy would be red flag for future sex crimes. I don’t know if a minor can be on the sex offenders list but I would say he should be fit the good of all concerned.

I bet you it the seriousness of this was minimised by claiming gender confusion being so very distressing.

I wouldn't be surprised if trans orgs aren't advising all of these organisations that transkids are mostly homosexual so there is no danger of accommodating them with children of the opposite sex.

That used to be true when it was about transsexual kids, but it isn't any longer. However ALL of the research tends to be based on transsexual kids, not transgender ones (by the latter I mean self-identified ones).

I don’t see how schools can independently police this- the idea of case by case is a nonsense as we can see. There needs to be proper sex based segregation.

Charley have you got a link to the full story? I'll put it on the resource thread.

It is a fundemental obstacle to effective Safeguarding and Child Protection.

That it absolutely is.

"I understand that you cannot disclose identities of any trans members. I would rather my daughter did not share a changing room or sleeping quarters. Can we discuss this?"

Let's imagine a scenario where there is a transgirl in a GG troop who passes so well that no-one other than the troop leaders are aware that they have a male body.

Sarah and Molly's parents are MNers and know that there is a potential issue. They are sharp elbowed enough to send this email, and seek - and receive - assurances that Sarah and Molly will share a tent with their friend Anna only at the forthcoming residential. They also request that Sarah and Molly don't share shower facilities with a transgirl, and this is agreed.

Anna's mum doesn't know about the policy, but is pleased that her daughter is sharing a tent with her friends and thinks no more about it. Because she doesn't make the request for Anna to shower with girls only, Anna is expected to share the washing facilities with a transgirl. This comes as a complete surprise to Anna, who is deeply uncomfortable with being naked in front of someone with a male body.

Lorraine's parents are similarly unaware of the policy, and would be horrified to learn that Lorraine is sharing a tent with someone with a male body. Had they known, they would have made clear that this was not acceptable, but they didn't so Lorraine just has to suck it up.

Nina's parents are Muslim and would withdraw Nina from GG rather than allow her to share a tent and washing facilities with a transgirl. When Nina gets home from camp and they find out what has happened, Nina is withdrawn with immediate effect. Her uncle is even more conservative, and makes Nina feel shamed for what happened.

Jane's parents knew about the policy but didn't want to make a fuss. It never occurred to them to complain, they just told Jane if she found herself in a tricky situation that she should try to excuse herself and try to shower later, for example. Jane is confused.

And so on, and so on....

In short, even allowing some girls to opt out of the "fully inclusive" policy doesn't help - those who don't know about it or who aren't willing to make a fuss tend to be some of the most vulnerable (parents with poor English, for example, won't understand the word salad gubbins that the GG put in that email). How anyone thinks that is acceptable is a mystery to me

Bertrand - the answer to the Q about Muslim girls, according to our favourite Women's Officer, is that they should be "re-educated"

No, there is no problem for Muslim girls if they just 'accept' that male people are female

Or we could just go back to segregating facilities by sex. That would also work!

Apparently trans is the one ring of oppression and must rule them all, so Muslim girls can just lump it.

"I'm sure something can be sorted out"
"It only takes open discussion"
"Sorry, can't help, don't know enough about it"
"Muslim girls wouldn't want to be Guides anyway"

Yeah that pretty much sums it up BertrandRussell

I can't say I feel very reassured as a leader.

The number of people who say things like "I'm sure Girl Guides have robust safeguarding policies in place" or "I'm sure a Guide leader would never let anything like that happen" staggers me. How can people be so naive? It seems as if a virus of wilful stupidity has infected hitherto rational people.

How can people be so naive?

If nothing bad has happened to you, you often lack the capacity to think about such things. It's beyond your imagination and your life experience.

Of course if something bad has happened to you, you tend to have a completely different world view. One that people who have had very safe cosy lives think is 'hysterical' or over reacting.

The problem is when these are the people in charge of safeguarding because it means they lack the necessary ability and experience to do safeguarding adequately because they lack the imagination to ask questions about how the system can be exploited maliciously.

Hence 2018.

It is strange. Mumsnet is usually wildly over the top on safeguarding issues- not leaving children alone in the house for 5 minutes until they are 16, boys changing with their mothers until they are 12....but no issue at all with this. And, I am sorry to bang on about this, but the willingness to throw Muslim girls under a bus is staggering!

Do we need a "Muslim girls are girls, and are also children who need safeguarding" thread?

People don't want to see the problem. If they did, they'd have to change their world view and do something.

And the reason I bang on about Muslim-and other exclusionist religions-is that they will be excluded. There may never be a trans girl who wants to be a guide, but this will have an effect on non hypothetical people immediately.