Girl guiding email to parents.

[Wildboar]

Has anyone seen the mass email sent out this evening? They haven’t acknowledged any concerns put to them. All they have stated that there is no risk and they won’t inform parents of transgender members due to data protection laws.

What about a 13 year old girl who doesn't feel comfortable sleeping in a bedroom with a male teenager with a penis Beware? Does she need to get a grip too?

Yes do answer bewareofdragons would also love to hearbhow you think you'd feel about the tent sharing when your DD moves up to Guides and her 14 year old self feels uncomfortable. But hey as long as the one with the penis feels welcome that's ok? Maybe by the time this girl with a penis gets to Guides and puberty (if not on blockers by then) starts to feel confused about her identity and maybevwants to try her penis out on your DD. How about that?

All of the above and how about some male-bodied self-identifier giving intimate care when your daughter has her first period while at camp?

Bloody idiots, some people.

I think this is the beginning of the end for girl guides. They’re handling this really badly.

"It does not." in this context has to be one of the trolliest sentences I've ever read.

We have developed our policy in line with legal advice and, in the case of our guidance around transgender members, organisations with experience of supporting transgender children and young people. Contrary to claims made on social media we do not make policy based on comments from individuals or pressure groups.

The legal advice you have been given contradicts the guidance from the EHRC, basic safeguarding practice, and the views of other legal experts.

You have told us earlier today that you directly consulted two pressure groups, Stonewall and Gendered Intelligence, who have aggressively and openly lobbied for the removal of women and girls legal rights. So this is a lie.

Gendered Intelligence by the way advised the MoJ on their current transgender prisoner policy. Which is going well for the vulnerable females in their care, isn't it? Oh wait...

I’d love to know how that’s gone down in my working class, traditional city. I’m absolutely not saying I agree with the attitudes of many in my area which birder in racist & homophobic but (I don’t) but I think GG don’t just runnin muddle class, enlightened areas.

Fermat, you summarized the issue perfectly.

I can’t fathom that a 13 year old male would be any more comfortable waking up next to a teenage girl than the teenage girl would be. Even if we lived in a world without sexual assault, there are still good reasons to segregate intimate spaces by sex.

the genderists never come back do they?

it's just bloody plop and run

bewareofdragons, it;s extremely rude to accuse people here of trying to make some children feel different and unwanted then fuck off and not back up your statements

so come back and talk or don't be so bloody rude in future

if you can't back up your accusations, maybe don't make them?

I said this on another thread, but I think this mass mail may well backfire on GGs.

If you were a parent who knew nothing about this, I imagine at least some would start googling to find what on earth prompted this rather extraordinary email.

I suspect this may cause an even larger backlash now they have actually told parents about this new policy...

So glad my daughter is pit of Guides. They have utterly failed.

They do not even mention gotks very much in their email. They are willing to gaslight girls to make boys feel more comfortable. They will not last because if you want a mixed sex group there are plenty of others to go to.

out of Guides....

I have had real problems getting through to (male) DP about this issue. He’s one of many who thinks that I have been making a fuss over nothing. This email came to his inbox: he gets it now.

They are correct in saying that simply being transgender does not make someone more of a safeguarding risk.

But possessing different genitalia does massively increase the risk. And yes, two gay girls may experiment on camp, but no one can get pregnant. And the whole issue of sharing facilities is one per sessingvthe same body parts eg a girl being sensitive about growing breasts or a boy not wanting the opposite sex to see him.

yeah

foot: meet shotgun

good

Even if the girls are happy to share their sleeping accommodation with a boy in the name of inclusivity, I bloody well wouldn’t be. That’s why I’m a frigging grown up - and wouldn’t leave such decisions to children or teenagers 🙄

Well at a guess Id say the vast majority of GG parents weren't remotely aware that there was an issue at all. So we have to thank GGUK for telling the parents of their members, most of whom are probably scratching their heads thinking wtf does this mean. saves us a job

Hopefully they'll now ask questions and receive clarification that the email is referring to the inclusion of the male-bodied.

Then let's see the reaction.

This is how Guides should be inclusive:

Welcome any female bodied young person - whatever gender they identify as.

Why do organisations feel that its suitable to reply to parents valid concerns with basically..we have decided you are worrying about nothing. Sorry but you would have to be an absolute idiot to not realise that there are issues with mixed sex sleeping arrangements with young people. NSPCC realise this, though for some reason they also pretend its not an issue the minute the magic word 'trans' is mentioned. Regardless of what the child thinks they are in their head, they have a body of the opposite sex. Would my kids be ok sharing rooms after 10 because one of them decided they identified as the opposite sex? Its just barmy.

Guides really is handling this very badly.

And to my mind, a trans inclusive policy would be..well..allowing transboys to remain in guides(as why not, they are female afterall). As it happens they are managed out.

Luckily for those newly googling parents Mumsnet comes up on the first page of searches.

*searches for keywords girl guides transgender

Just got this email. I cannot believe they wrote “It does not” as if saying it makes it true. So many people disagree and say “It does”!

I’m now so glad that DD has recently quit Guides. She won’t be going back to an organisation that is so blinkered to what they are doing so horribly wrong.

Also sorry but it takes a special kind of person to insist on their entry to a single sex environment when there are mixed sex ones available. Much like the 'transwomen' who insist on using the female pond at Hamsptead heath, when there is a mixed one they could use if they didn't feel they should be with the other males.

I don't blame this on the kids, it will more likely be the parents pushing for this. Fairly sure genuine 'transgirls' would be happy with scouts...and those that aren't are unlikely to be genuine and have their own reasons for pushing their way into a female only environment.

Excellent. So what can we do to make sure MN remains the first result?

Suppose there is, theoretically, 0 safety risk.

Do girls still not have a right to have a space free from males?

Also, they are allowed to exclude males that 'identify' as males, but as soon as these males 'identify' as girls, it's ok?

None of this makes any sense. The more I hear people talk about "being inclusive" the more pissed off I get. Where will it stop? I swear I remember stories like parents inviting other kids to birthday parties even though their own kids didn't like these other kids. Just to be 'inclusive'.

Sorry but fuck you if you think 'inclusiveness' for its own sake is a good thing. (if this breaks the rules, please just delete the swearing rather than the entire post).

So GG is now a young peoples organisation? Funny, I always thought it was an organisation specifically for girls, you know, those young cunti types.
Noticed they haven’t included response to any of the specific criticisms, allowing males, including adults, to share sleeping and showering with the girls etc. No, they wouldn’t do that would they, just in case people weren’t already aware, don’t want to put ideas into their heads. Don’t want those bigoted parents knowing what’s going on. Instead it’s all we’re right, and they’re all nasty, and we’re great at safeguarding, which we‘re not going to talk about.
Way to put your hands over your ears and sing lalala GG, until it all blows up in your faces. You disgust me. If I had a DD she wouldn’t be coming anywhere near you lot. My DS won’t either, because I respect girls only space, unlike you.