Girl guiding email to parents.

[Wildboar]

Has anyone seen the mass email sent out this evening? They haven’t acknowledged any concerns put to them. All they have stated that there is no risk and they won’t inform parents of transgender members due to data protection laws.

I think it means that EHRC have found the current policy wanting. But for what, we don’t know yet.

They will still be liked out because GG blamed their postings on social media.

Yes GG were careful to have reasons other than wrongthink for their expulsion. Everyone can see GG have behaved and are behaving appallingly.

Also I think any policy change should invite the question- who advised GG incorrectly so that their policy did not meet the requirements of the Equality Act 2010?

Who else have this individual/ organisation advised?

Should individual/ organisation be advising any further orgs if their advice is untrustworthy/ substandard/ biased/ discriminatory/ illegal?
Etc etc.

With regard to the religious aspect I was told today that to be religious is stupid and the person has no time for stupid people.

So that's alright then.. It's only stupid people who will be affected and they don't count.

We live in a very strange, intolerant world.

But belief in internal gender ID, and having it trump the reality of sexed bodies in all humans on the planet, is an article of faith.

Why should believers in genderism trump believers in any other religion?

Oh yes white men that would be it.

I know I bang this drum to the point of boring everyone, but Genderism needs to be held up as the religion it is. If we, quite rightly, wouldn't let the tenets of Catholicism override the sensibilities of Muslim or Atheist girls, or vice versa, then we simply should not allow a religion like Genderism to ride roughshod over those who do not hold to it.

If you truly believe in lady brains, and that it's possible to be born in the wrong body, then I don't really have the will to spend an awful lot more time saying why I disagree. You are free to believe it, and free speech means you have as much space as any other religionist to evangelize your point of view. Heck, you can even raise your kids in it if that's what you want.

But when you start demanding unbelievers comply with the rules of your religion, or you begin pressing to be allowed to do objectively harmful medical procedures on your children, then I'm afraid your religious freedom abruptly bumps up against reality, and you can and should be challenged for your fundamentalism.

Ah, but I should have empathy for the poor transwomen. Of course it should only be for the genuine ones. No they don't know how to tell which are genuine. But I should habe empathy.

Sorry, getting off topic. Merailing done.

I had an email from EHRC this morning to say that GG are revising their policy with assistance from EHRC.

Hmm. At least they are finally listening, however I suspect that the change will be for them to just come out and say they are now mixed sex. Which is better than the mixed sex by stealth thing they have going on at the moment.

And are GG planning to admit this at any point. Given their ridiculous email say all is fine, nothing to see here?

Can anyone force them to admit it on Twitter?

I think part of what's happening here is that orgs like GG were told very firmly by the trans orgs they consulted that the majority of the public agreed with the full set of TRA beliefs. The fact that that's very much not the case seem to have them reeling in shock. You can see the same thing with some of the commenters here who've insisted for a long time that the women here represent a strange, backward minority. It's what happens when an unrealistic worldview is confronted with evidence that it's not shared as commonly as the person with it had assumed.

I suspect GG thought TRA groups were telling the truth when they said its against the law to have single sex services, and whatever other twisted versions of the law they use. I know my stepdaughters school took TRA 'advice' at face value and made loos basically mixed sex. When parents complained they were told that it was against the law to do anything else, legal advice had been taken etc. 'Legal advice' turned out to be very biased and inaccurate advice from Mermaids (or gendered intelligence..one of the two, same thing really though). So yeah. Possibly something like that.

Notice how often TRAs on here make claims about illegality that just aren't true? Like the person who tried to get everyone to stop talking about Jane Fae and the things Fae said while still calling Faeself John Ozimek because according to them "deadnaming" is illegal? It's not, and I'm sure they knew that. I'm sure the orgs that advised the GG knew what they were saying about the Equality Act wasn't true either, but they were probably hoping that the Guides would assume that it was, and they may well have.

I suspect you are right. Putting people in danger because they are too trusting and fail to check what the law is.

And now they are quiet and are trying to hide because the backlash is massive.

Sorry, I haven't rtft, but I'm doing some brownie planning and looking at the Eggs international day of the girls activity pack is making my head explode wrt the UK, and I fear Irish, position www.wagggs.org/en/what-we-do/day-of-the-girl/.

It's basically grooming whole organisations I suspect there's a lot of statistics and fauxlegal speak.

Waggs, not eggs above

Hopefully the cracks are starting to show.

Bolloxio my reaction after reading the scout guidance was immediately to wonder if Guides were deliberately lied to or misled BUT is was also to realise they lacked the a sufficient basic knowledge / ability / confidence / experience / whatever to ask appropriate questions of what they were told too.

If Guides and Scouts have both been advised by the same organisations how come they came to such different policies?

The single sex stuff is an additional layer in that, but basic safeguarding principles which are relevant to a mixed sex setting were also missed / ignored.

Why?

I do think its important to note this, rather than just pin it on the potential militancy of trans activists. You can not get away from the lack of due diligence on display from Guiding.

For me, even if they did manage to come to a policy that was fair and acceptable to girls, if I had a daughter in the organisation I'd be asking questions.

Girl Guiding has lost a huge amount of reputation and trust amongst those who have direct contact with them and who use their network.

A last minute u-turn after pressure, is poor.

What red said. Regardless of dodgy advice, they should have been sufficiently trained in safeguarding to ask the right questions. In fact they should have known it was their responsibility to do so. Safeguarding is not just a box ticking exercise.

Agreed, my point is that the orgs that gave misleading legal advice should face consequences for that. It should not be acceptable that they gave guidance as to the law that was wrong, they most likely knew that they were doing do, and in terms of public response they're taking very little heat at all.

This wasn't an oversight, it was strategy. Those orgs are lying to the other orgs that they're being called in to advise and telling them what they'd like the law to say rather than what it actually says.

Yes completely agree with that too angry.

I don't understand how this stuff hasn't all fallen apart already. I think there must be some serious old boys type network behind the scenes.

I'm sure I read on here a while back that although scouts know what they are doing with mixed sex they are still going along with the trans person is whatever gender they say. So there could still be the same problems as with GG. I could easily be wrong but please don't take scouts at face value without looking into it.

Apologies if this has already been posted

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/26/transgender-guide-leaders-no-risk-girls-volunteers-say-bosses/

Comments allowed too, which is unusual on a Telegraph article these days.

So, GG, dodgy blokes didn't become priests, or boarding school tutors, or scout masters or sport coaches in the past, did they?

Who is Alex Farrow, who 'sits on the Audit and Risk committee' and why is he a GG trustee? No previous mention about being a scout or whatever, like the other male, who is presumably there for his financial acumen.

www.girlguiding.org.uk/about-us/our-organisation/how-girlguiding-is-run/meet-our-trustees/

Alex Farrow

www.youthpolicy.org/team/alex/

twitter.com/alexjamesfarrow