Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Call for gender critical people in Cambridge, UK

281 replies

maniacmagpie · 24/09/2018 12:21

DISCLAIMER: am not a mum and am relatively young. Have lurked intermittently here and in other feminism spaces, largely interacting with other young people (student age). Due to my age, my main exposure to these issues is from the point of view of someone moving in young liberal spaces, and my call is phrased accordingly, rather than among adult women who have a more tangible experience of systematic sexism in society, medicine and life. PLEASE let me know if this not the appropriate place for this request, and I will step back.

This is a message that I have started to spread: I have not generally been a social person and so am finding it relatively difficult to get started on contacting people. If I can get in contact with other people who share my concerns in person that would be great: if not, I will do what I can.

"Hello.

I am a student at Cambridge University. I have been left-leaning my whole adult life. I have been supportive of trans rights for years. I have always believed, and continue to firmly believe, that discrimination on the basis of being trans is unacceptable; trans people should have access to the care that they need, and do not deserve to be treated as lesser people on the basis of who they are.

Despite this, I have become increasingly alarmed by the discourse surrounding trans activism. For many years I crushed my own thoughts about misogyny, my doubts about my own understanding of sexism, with the thoughts that I must not ‘get’ it as a ‘cis’ female. I believed - or rather, forced myself to believe, when I couldn’t truly believe - that trans people, and specifically trans women, completely understand what it means to be the gender they identify with.

I no longer believe this. Please, before you dismiss me as a bigot, hear me out.

I no longer believe womanhood is a mystical force that can be detached at will from the reality of the female body, I do not believe that femininity is the target of misogyny, because non-conforming women suffer still from misogyny. I do not believe that even trans men are able to escape all misogyny and their own socialisation by transitioning - they are still able to be, and indeed have been, targeted by sexual violence in a way that only male-bodied people can visit on female-bodied people - reproductive violence, that can result in pregnancy, and the associated policing of bodily autonomy that comes with that. I believe that trans women are the targets of misogyny when it is assumed they are female bodied, and homophobia and fear when they are assumed to be male. I do not believe that it is reasonable, or appropriate, to demand that natal women stop talking about reproductive violence due to this misdirected misogyny. I do not believe that this statement is transphobic.

I believe that transphobia - job discrimination, verbal abuse and violence - is unacceptable. However, I strongly disagree that certain actions that are labelled as transphobic among progressives, are transphobic at all. I believe, not only that homosexual men and women have every right to reject opposite-sexed people as sexual and romantic partners, but also that the demands circulated among many progressive forums are damaging to young people’s understanding of their sexuality. Specifically, the toxic combination of female socialisation, lack of resources for isolated girls, and pornsick fetishisation of lesbianism for the consumption of men makes lesbian youth vulnerable to manipulation and gaslighting from mainstream LGBT+ groups, illustrated by the horrific discourse about the ‘cotton ceiling’. Not wanting to sleep with someone is not violence. Inclusivity is not something that is expressed through access to your body. I do not believe that in normal conversation it is at all reasonable to demand that any person, trans or otherwise, talk about their genitals - but sexual relationships are another matter. Sexual relationships should only be engaged with by two willing and enthusiastic participants. Human sexuality is, and should be, exclusive and not a target for guilt-tripping.

I believe that specific difficulties are presented to trans people that they should have the resources to deal with and spaces to talk about. However, I also believe that specific difficulties are presented to female people on the basis of their bodies - and that discussion of these issues is not transphobia. Naming reproductive violence for what it is, campaigning for better understanding of female medical issues in the face of the huge male bias of modern medicine, and recognition of the economic and social penalties endured by female people specifically on the basis of being physically female and not due to an inner identity, is not transphobia.

Gender hurts. Gender is a system designed to trap and control female people from birth through childhood, adolescence, adulthood and old age, because of their reproductive capabilities. This system did not fall from the heavens; it was created by males, to benefit males. Women have always, and continue to, suffer under this system - our economic power restricted, our lives at the mercy of men, our bodies policed, our voices ignored - because we are female, because we are chattel, because of those who believe we are lesser. Gender is the reinforcement of sex stereotypes, that women have fought against and will continue to fight against, as long as it exists.

Many males suffer under this system - gender non-conforming males are at inordinate risk of violence, generally from other males - due to stepping out of line. Boys who show emotion are punished for it. Gender hurts - gender is not a fun hat to take on and off, gender kills boys and men for behaving the wrong way, and girls and women for both resisting and capitulating. Gender is not a fun toy to play with and to swap around. Gender is a system designed to break us down.

‘Pussy grabs back’ - women cry - because the President of the United States said ‘grab them by the pussy’. Not ‘grab them by the feminine essence’ or ‘grab them by the girl brain’ or ‘grab them by the emotional intelligence’. Grab them by the pussy. Grab this creature who exists for his consumption and pleasure, by the only thing that gives them value in his eyes. Focusing on this does not make women genital obsessed. Pointing out that this is the root of our oppression is not transmisogyny. Recognising that we are treated this way because of our bodies is not a statement that it is the most important aspect of our selves, but a declaration that we are more than our bodies - and that we must be able to name the problem in order to combat the problem. Saying ‘this pussy grabs back’ is not transphobia. Recognising the extreme sexism of powerful men is not transphobia.

I retain a deep sympathy for those who suffer with dysphoria and deal with it in the best way they can. My stance on trans identities is roughly that of a medicalist. I believe that trans people are fully deserving of respect, the same rights as every other person, and freedom from discrimination. I believe that what is being asked, by certain noisy factions of trans rights extremists, is not a call for respect but rather a call for excessive privileges at the expense largely of natal females, and a targeted bullying of lesbian females and homosexual males. I do not believe that it is transphobic to point this out.

I do not believe in brain sex, but even if I did I think it is irrelevant - if you carved open a woman to find a clearly, obviously male brain with MAN branded in big blue letters, she would still have suffered sexism based on her body. To those who believe this to be true, that they are ‘born in the wrong body’ and the only way to alleviate this is transition, I respect your autonomy and your right to live as you feel best, but must say this: sexism visited on a man in a woman’s body is no worse than sexism visited on a woman in a woman’s body. Sexism hurts ‘cis’ women as much as it hurts female-bodied people who identify otherwise. I do not believe this is a transphobic thing to say.

I want to raise awareness and spark discussion in Cambridge, both in and outside the University. I want to discuss these issues, in light of the gender self-ID consultation, the silencing of A Women’s Place UK, the violence perpetrated upon women who speak out, and the vitriol being circulated against gender critics. I invite natal women, natal men, trans women, trans men, straight, bisexual, gay, lesbian, questioning, otherwise - anyone who wants to discuss, debate or just acknowledge this topic - to contact me. My wish is to provide a space to debate and discuss these topics outside the false dichotomy of the ‘conservative right’ and the ‘progressive left’. I want to reach out to the women suffering from misogyny, men suffering from enforcement of toxic masculinity, and trans, lesbian and gay people who are being failed by conservative families on the right and by ‘queer identity’ theorists on the left who describe their reality as transphobic, who feel silenced and unable to speak out without being branded as either morally disgusting or as bigots.

Please spread this. PM me. I want to talk. I’m reaching out. I will use the tag ‘gender hurts uk’ (on tumblr, where my blog is 'yourledgerisdripping'), or privately message those of you who reach out to me.

Gender hurts."

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
nauticant · 27/01/2019 20:35

Like others, I hadn't opened this thread before because I live far from Cambridge. However, having seen the other thread about your current protest I gave this one a look.

It's a terrific thread and an excellent read. You have real courage maniacmagpie. Not the flash storming-machine-guns-type but the stoic determined type. This is inspirational.

groundcontroltomontydon · 27/01/2019 20:58

Wow, I'm in awe of your tenacity and courage, Magpie. What you're doing is so important. You're amazing.

Dragon3 · 27/01/2019 22:30

I skimmed earlier and mis-maniaced you elsewhere on the boards by calling you manicmagpie (sorry).

Is there anything that women far away from Cambridge can do to support you?

Please don't forget to take care of yourself first and foremost. We are many. If you ever need to regroup remember that the baton can be passed backwards and forwards Flowers

OvaHere · 27/01/2019 23:00

What you're doing is fantastic maniacmagpie. Like others I overlooked this thread assuming it was a meet up and I am far from Cambridge.

I'm really heartened that there are some young GC women engaged in activism. Flowers

maniacmagpie · 27/01/2019 23:19

Wow this blew up a lot more than I had expected. Of course I'm glad, but I didn't know if it would work!

The protest on Saturday went fairly well, except for a few logistical problems on the way down the road where the billboard, strapped to my bag, decided it would like to be a kite instead. What a way to go that would be - strapped to my horribly transphobic poster.

Anyway.

As you can maybe tell I was hopping mad when I saw the tweet. And I don't know why I suddenly decided I was going to do such a different protest. But it was within about five minutes that I planned it all out.

That said, I didn't know if I was going through with it until the last possible moment. I wasn't sure. I thought it might be too much for me. But I was so angry, and I was so tired of pretending that other people have a monopoly on outrage, and I was tired of debating dehumanising language to come to a common ground, there has to come a time when you just make a damn stand. It had been bubbling in my head all week, and finally I just knew I wouldn't forgive myself if I let it slide.

My only regret is that I didn't get rid of the white space at the top of the poster since I hacked it all together at about 4am!

A lot of people took pictures. Crowds gathered to read it. Here are a few snippets of things I overheard.

"Ooh a handmaid! Wait, what? ... ... ... She has a point actually." (a group of men)
"Why not just say women?" [indistinct explanation about inclusivity from someone else] (woman with a pram, who after a few more moments thought while her friends continued, took a picture)
"Are you protesting because you are angry our language is being stolen? A lot of us are angry too."

So many of us are out here and so many of us know what's up. We are scattered across the country and so many of us believe ourselves isolated and alone.

Thank you all for your support and your concern for my wellbeing (heartfelt, I know it can sound accidentally sarcastic online!). My wish is that what I am doing gives you hope.

As to what you can do for me: I am gathering resources, and my most recent thought is that we could do with a map for speedy reference. I am inspired by a radfem map I saw on tumblr.

maphub.net/maniacmagpie/gendercriticaluk

As you can see it is a little sparse, with just me and the Cambridge Radical Feminists here in Cambridge...I am aware of the location and meetup threads and will cross-post to them, but I would appreciate if people could help spreading this for me.

Contact via DM on mumsnet, Twitter, or post it here.

OP posts:
LiverpoolReSisters · 28/01/2019 00:30

Join the ReSisters United movement, op. You can DM us on Twitter at @ResistersU and we can help you (or anyone!) find other local women.

We are not alone, and we are growing. #ReSisters

Manderleyagain · 28/01/2019 08:53

Hi magpie. Sorry I hadn't seen the last 2 or 3 posts you have done. But saw you have joined twitter. I will follow you if I ever join twitter properly!
Well done you fab woman!

WhatIsTheMeaningOfThis · 28/01/2019 12:41

maniacmagpie

I'm another one who hadn't read your thread until now because I'm nowhere near Cambridge but I've just spent sometime reading it all this morning and you are abso-fucking-lutely amazing!

I am a mum of a pre-teen girl, as are many of the Women I know - some of them don't get it but I'm slowly getting the message through.

Interestingly, the ones who "don't get it" don't because they don't believe that anyone is taking/will take this madness seriously. Not a single one of them believes that TWAW.

You really are a true inspiration Flowers Gin xxx

R0wantrees · 28/01/2019 13:13

So many of us are out here and so many of us know what's up. We are scattered across the country and so many of us believe ourselves isolated and alone

maniacmagpie Adding my admiration and thanks for all you do. Flowers

current threads about the dressing of statues throughout the UK with T.Shirts etc 'Woman=adult human female

Gallery here: resistersunited.org/gallery/

update from MenstruatorExtraordinaire
"Woman Adult Human Female is #StandingForWomen
#WomenStandUp
#ReSistersUnited

If anyone is on Twitter please tweet the hashtags above and retweet all the photos. It was bloody cold last night and a lot of fabulous feminists were out on the streets hanging Adult Human Female T Shirts on female statues."

Star Star Star

Hopefully people will share widely and talk about this.

threads:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3492261-Statues-throughout-the-UK-wearing-Woman-Adult-Human-Female-StandingForWomen-WomenStandUp-ReSistersUnited

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3470743-The-ReSisters-movement-is-growing

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3492065-ReSisters-stand-up-for-adult-human-females

Call for gender critical people in Cambridge, UK
Call for gender critical people in Cambridge, UK
Call for gender critical people in Cambridge, UK
AnyOldPrion · 28/01/2019 13:23

Sitting here in tears, having just read this thread. Magpie, your posts read like a dystopian novel. I found myself wondering whether you would end up being published. Your inner thoughts reflect so much on things I’ve gone through, though I’m more than twice your age when arriving at some of those conclusions.

And the final triumphant expansion. The last few weeks have felt grim. There was a moment last year when I felt women in the U.K. had made great strides, but then it felt as if everything had been sucked away again. All of you give me hope. Thank you so much.

R0wantrees · 28/01/2019 13:42

see also current thread with amazing photographs:

OP Doobigetta wrote:
"ReSisters groups in Manchester, Sheffield, Birmingham, Cambridge, Cardiff and across the country were out standing for women last night and did an amazing job. Please share your photos here!"

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3492065-ReSisters-stand-up-for-adult-human-females

SisterWendyBuckett · 28/01/2019 14:04

So many of us are out here and so many of us know what's up. We are scattered across the country and so many of us believe ourselves isolated and alone.

Yes - you do give me hope Magpie. You'll never know what your courage means to me but all I can say is thank you Thanks

Lefthanddown · 28/01/2019 14:37

Magpie on Sat - I know the picture is on other threads, but think one is also needed here

Call for gender critical people in Cambridge, UK
maniacmagpie · 02/02/2019 13:07

Dang I forgot to add - I will be out again today, 2pm to 4pm continuing the silent protest. In case people want to talk I will then wait on the wall from until 4.15pm.

The Twitter is gaining some traction, I'm glad as I hoped the visual impact would work but didn't know if it would.

The main issue is I don't have conversational stories to report at the minute for obvious reasons!

OP posts:
littlbrowndog · 02/02/2019 13:10

Good work maniamagpie
🍷🍷🍺🍺

papayasareyum · 02/02/2019 17:10

do you do Saturdays? I keep meaning to come over, but tend to go on a Sunday, so always miss you. I think what you're doing is brilliant.
I think visual protests are so powerful.

Manderleyagain · 02/02/2019 17:48

Well done again. Have you had coverage in the Cambridge evening news? Now your story is quite visual I wonder if they would cover. Sorry if I've asked before. You could raise a few eye brows in the fens!

Also it's good to see that there is a new Cambridge radfem network. Along with all the resisters groups it feels like something is really happening and you are a part of that all on your own. Sorry I'm nowhere near so can't come by.

Has that woke lbgt soc Facebook page said anything recently?

maniacmagpie · 07/02/2019 12:59

Sorry it's been a long time since a proper update.

Manderleyagain I've not seen this picked up anywhere as a news story.

I'm definitely on the radar of a few student groups now, I have seen posts explicitly about transphobic protests by individuals that I'm pretty sure includes me and the women who participated in the woman:noun protests (hi, good work gals!). I've seen various descriptions of the hostile environment I'm creating; I've been told in person I have to put it in the context of the 'constant transphobic attacks' experienced by trans-identifying people...

Honestly though? I have to ask, how many of these attacks are expression of a differing opinion? I am a one-woman peaceful protest and I am one of the most dangerous individuals around?

When you need everyone to conform to your worldview, my actions can indeed be seen as an attack. When you need everyone to believe the same as you to feel comfortable, my presence and explicit refusal to bow down - and worse, my explicit commitment to discussing the conflict between the different points of view and the fact that identity rights necessarily destroy material-based rights - is, indeed, a danger to the creation of their perfect world...

Last week a female person of undeclared gender came out to inform me that they are running a self-care group in support of trans people every week that I do this, which makes 'what you're doing counterproductive'. Since my explicit goal is to make trans people sad, I guess I have to down tools in despair that they're fighting back.

It's telling that these posts never bother to say what I'm actually saying. They say 'transphobe' and are done with it.

There are a few interesting things that have popped up. I myself am not on facebook, but I've been shown that at least one lesbian woman posted to a 'queerbridge' facebook page praising the 'womyn dressed as a handmaid'. It was swiftly deluged and I think now taken down - but there were likes as well as rage.

I've had private communications with people who have seen my protest who, when voicing support or even neutrality, have reported being swamped with accusations of transphobia.

People out there know, they know what's up. I keep going out to show them they are not alone.

----------------
----------------

I am NOT out on Saturday 9th Feb, do NOT come just to see me this Saturday. Repeat, do not travel with the express purpose of seeing me on Saturday, although I highly recommend seeing Cambridge anyway!

Anyone in the area, I also recommend checking out Cambridge Radical Feminist Network here:

www.facebook.com/camradfems/?eid=ARBvEMVHzu0vb23lbdMTh-Xj4Mcf8FgCoB84bzVnh_54NmukzSZQ2mUiut1QeSOXCuxmpPGt_5ZOalJu

As well as meeting as a feminist group they have published a few articles, I'm sure more readers/interaction would be very welcome. You can also find them as @camradfems on Twitter.

OP posts:
NeurotrashWarrior · 07/02/2019 15:05

Wow OP just realised what you've been doing from the other thread.

Enormous respect.

maniacmagpie · 08/02/2019 12:28

I've done it, I've finally done it. I've been considering this for a while.

twitter.com/maniacmagpie

"I sat on this for fear of being a woman online, especially a gender critic. I need to do this anyway. For the champions of open debate, and for [Angelos Sofocleous] who showed me what a student's voice could do: I am Jay Man, I am a Cambridge student, and I am not ashamed of my views."

OP posts:
Needmoresleep · 08/02/2019 12:45

Take care, and don’t let the hate get to you. If it does seek out some good real life and sensible people.

I heard yesterday that a teenager we know has come out as trans. The parents are apparently relaxed and cool about it. No, no no! Through what I have learned on MN etc, I mentioned the importance of watchful waiting, the potential lifelong impact of medicalisation, and the phenomenon of ROGD. The more people who speak out the more chance parents have of steering their children away from the Stonewall/Mermaids bollocks and the internet influencers.

Thank you for being so brave and giving us courage.

NeurotrashWarrior · 08/02/2019 12:49

Well done. Off to follow you now.

ComeMonday · 08/02/2019 14:40

You are clearly passionate about this issue. But if your goal is to get people concerned enough that they would join a group to advocate for it you need to cut the length of your letter by A LOT — at least 2/3. No matter how much people care they’re unlikely to stick with something of that length. You make a lot of important points but you need to focus on what’s going to strike a chord with people. Just focus on the really important points and then give further info to people who ask.

SisterWendyBuckett · 08/02/2019 22:16

* "When you need everyone to conform to your worldview, my actions can indeed be seen as an attack. When you need everyone to believe the same as you to feel comfortable, my presence and explicit refusal to bow down - and worse, my explicit commitment to discussing the conflict between the different points of view and the fact that identity rights necessarily destroy material-based rights - is, indeed, a danger to the creation of their perfect world...*"

You've nailed it again, thank you Magpie.

ukcamstudent · 14/02/2019 11:26

All, please follow @camradfems on Twitter, if you're in the Cambridge area. We have meetings on Sunday evening.

Swipe left for the next trending thread