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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Call for gender critical people in Cambridge, UK

281 replies

maniacmagpie · 24/09/2018 12:21

DISCLAIMER: am not a mum and am relatively young. Have lurked intermittently here and in other feminism spaces, largely interacting with other young people (student age). Due to my age, my main exposure to these issues is from the point of view of someone moving in young liberal spaces, and my call is phrased accordingly, rather than among adult women who have a more tangible experience of systematic sexism in society, medicine and life. PLEASE let me know if this not the appropriate place for this request, and I will step back.

This is a message that I have started to spread: I have not generally been a social person and so am finding it relatively difficult to get started on contacting people. If I can get in contact with other people who share my concerns in person that would be great: if not, I will do what I can.

"Hello.

I am a student at Cambridge University. I have been left-leaning my whole adult life. I have been supportive of trans rights for years. I have always believed, and continue to firmly believe, that discrimination on the basis of being trans is unacceptable; trans people should have access to the care that they need, and do not deserve to be treated as lesser people on the basis of who they are.

Despite this, I have become increasingly alarmed by the discourse surrounding trans activism. For many years I crushed my own thoughts about misogyny, my doubts about my own understanding of sexism, with the thoughts that I must not ‘get’ it as a ‘cis’ female. I believed - or rather, forced myself to believe, when I couldn’t truly believe - that trans people, and specifically trans women, completely understand what it means to be the gender they identify with.

I no longer believe this. Please, before you dismiss me as a bigot, hear me out.

I no longer believe womanhood is a mystical force that can be detached at will from the reality of the female body, I do not believe that femininity is the target of misogyny, because non-conforming women suffer still from misogyny. I do not believe that even trans men are able to escape all misogyny and their own socialisation by transitioning - they are still able to be, and indeed have been, targeted by sexual violence in a way that only male-bodied people can visit on female-bodied people - reproductive violence, that can result in pregnancy, and the associated policing of bodily autonomy that comes with that. I believe that trans women are the targets of misogyny when it is assumed they are female bodied, and homophobia and fear when they are assumed to be male. I do not believe that it is reasonable, or appropriate, to demand that natal women stop talking about reproductive violence due to this misdirected misogyny. I do not believe that this statement is transphobic.

I believe that transphobia - job discrimination, verbal abuse and violence - is unacceptable. However, I strongly disagree that certain actions that are labelled as transphobic among progressives, are transphobic at all. I believe, not only that homosexual men and women have every right to reject opposite-sexed people as sexual and romantic partners, but also that the demands circulated among many progressive forums are damaging to young people’s understanding of their sexuality. Specifically, the toxic combination of female socialisation, lack of resources for isolated girls, and pornsick fetishisation of lesbianism for the consumption of men makes lesbian youth vulnerable to manipulation and gaslighting from mainstream LGBT+ groups, illustrated by the horrific discourse about the ‘cotton ceiling’. Not wanting to sleep with someone is not violence. Inclusivity is not something that is expressed through access to your body. I do not believe that in normal conversation it is at all reasonable to demand that any person, trans or otherwise, talk about their genitals - but sexual relationships are another matter. Sexual relationships should only be engaged with by two willing and enthusiastic participants. Human sexuality is, and should be, exclusive and not a target for guilt-tripping.

I believe that specific difficulties are presented to trans people that they should have the resources to deal with and spaces to talk about. However, I also believe that specific difficulties are presented to female people on the basis of their bodies - and that discussion of these issues is not transphobia. Naming reproductive violence for what it is, campaigning for better understanding of female medical issues in the face of the huge male bias of modern medicine, and recognition of the economic and social penalties endured by female people specifically on the basis of being physically female and not due to an inner identity, is not transphobia.

Gender hurts. Gender is a system designed to trap and control female people from birth through childhood, adolescence, adulthood and old age, because of their reproductive capabilities. This system did not fall from the heavens; it was created by males, to benefit males. Women have always, and continue to, suffer under this system - our economic power restricted, our lives at the mercy of men, our bodies policed, our voices ignored - because we are female, because we are chattel, because of those who believe we are lesser. Gender is the reinforcement of sex stereotypes, that women have fought against and will continue to fight against, as long as it exists.

Many males suffer under this system - gender non-conforming males are at inordinate risk of violence, generally from other males - due to stepping out of line. Boys who show emotion are punished for it. Gender hurts - gender is not a fun hat to take on and off, gender kills boys and men for behaving the wrong way, and girls and women for both resisting and capitulating. Gender is not a fun toy to play with and to swap around. Gender is a system designed to break us down.

‘Pussy grabs back’ - women cry - because the President of the United States said ‘grab them by the pussy’. Not ‘grab them by the feminine essence’ or ‘grab them by the girl brain’ or ‘grab them by the emotional intelligence’. Grab them by the pussy. Grab this creature who exists for his consumption and pleasure, by the only thing that gives them value in his eyes. Focusing on this does not make women genital obsessed. Pointing out that this is the root of our oppression is not transmisogyny. Recognising that we are treated this way because of our bodies is not a statement that it is the most important aspect of our selves, but a declaration that we are more than our bodies - and that we must be able to name the problem in order to combat the problem. Saying ‘this pussy grabs back’ is not transphobia. Recognising the extreme sexism of powerful men is not transphobia.

I retain a deep sympathy for those who suffer with dysphoria and deal with it in the best way they can. My stance on trans identities is roughly that of a medicalist. I believe that trans people are fully deserving of respect, the same rights as every other person, and freedom from discrimination. I believe that what is being asked, by certain noisy factions of trans rights extremists, is not a call for respect but rather a call for excessive privileges at the expense largely of natal females, and a targeted bullying of lesbian females and homosexual males. I do not believe that it is transphobic to point this out.

I do not believe in brain sex, but even if I did I think it is irrelevant - if you carved open a woman to find a clearly, obviously male brain with MAN branded in big blue letters, she would still have suffered sexism based on her body. To those who believe this to be true, that they are ‘born in the wrong body’ and the only way to alleviate this is transition, I respect your autonomy and your right to live as you feel best, but must say this: sexism visited on a man in a woman’s body is no worse than sexism visited on a woman in a woman’s body. Sexism hurts ‘cis’ women as much as it hurts female-bodied people who identify otherwise. I do not believe this is a transphobic thing to say.

I want to raise awareness and spark discussion in Cambridge, both in and outside the University. I want to discuss these issues, in light of the gender self-ID consultation, the silencing of A Women’s Place UK, the violence perpetrated upon women who speak out, and the vitriol being circulated against gender critics. I invite natal women, natal men, trans women, trans men, straight, bisexual, gay, lesbian, questioning, otherwise - anyone who wants to discuss, debate or just acknowledge this topic - to contact me. My wish is to provide a space to debate and discuss these topics outside the false dichotomy of the ‘conservative right’ and the ‘progressive left’. I want to reach out to the women suffering from misogyny, men suffering from enforcement of toxic masculinity, and trans, lesbian and gay people who are being failed by conservative families on the right and by ‘queer identity’ theorists on the left who describe their reality as transphobic, who feel silenced and unable to speak out without being branded as either morally disgusting or as bigots.

Please spread this. PM me. I want to talk. I’m reaching out. I will use the tag ‘gender hurts uk’ (on tumblr, where my blog is 'yourledgerisdripping'), or privately message those of you who reach out to me.

Gender hurts."

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Manderleyagain · 14/02/2019 12:27

Hello Jay! Have you thought about bringing your writings from this thread together into one essay or blog post? There is so much insight in this thread but it's hidden away in a random corner of mums net.
What's the letter that Comemonday mentioned upthread? Is it something you give out on paper?

maniacmagpie · 15/02/2019 20:05

ComeMonday thank you for your input. I don't spread the original post itself, at the time I scattergunned the call across a few different social media sites that I use, because I was alone and confused and just looking for gender criticals. As such, I am now aware that the format isn't great for catching people's attention. I have since written other letters for example to my MP but I mainly focus on face-to-face speaking and awareness raising for now.

Needmoresleep thank you - as much as I claim my conviction and trust in my principles, even if I one day decide I am wrong (as I have done in the past), my friends show me a seemingly endless stream of anger from people posting about me and my hateful actions on facebook, and those are just the public posts. Who knows what's going on in the groups that we don't access.

For every one of those there's another who direct messages me tentatively starting to reach out, another person sick of the banhammering and cotton ceiling rhetoric and the appalling culture of guilt-tripping to get what they want, often with outright lies.

Manderleyagain I think ComeMonday was referring to my original post, thinking that it's a leaflet or letter I hand out. I agree with the comments about it being too long and don't use it; it stands here as a record of my jumbled thoughts that I hacked out in a sudden need to do something, but of course I have many criticisms of the text itself in retrospect. I think about sorting out my ramblings into blog posts quite a lot. It is a project I do plan to engage in in the future. Previously I just threw random words out onto this thread thinking just a few people were reading them and pouring out a stream of consciousness. I was actually feeling guilty sometimes for wasting the space on this board.

I'll let you all know when I get my ass in gear. I'm simply bogged down at the minute, as evidenced by the decreased frequency of my longer posts.

Thank you Neurotrash and everyone else following me on Twitter. Feel free to plaster my silly face on any social media you care to use. I've noticed that (independently to me posting it which I originally planned to do) I've spread to the gender critical side of Tumblr and who knows where else.

I will be back outside in the normal format from 2pm to 4pm tomorrow afternoon. In the wake of the flurry of activity over free speech in universities it seems right.

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NeurotrashWarrior · 19/02/2019 03:44

I was actually feeling guilty sometimes for wasting the space on this board.

Err, don't be daft! You're doing something!

Most of us are hiding behind keyboards worrying we can't say these things openly.

You got it bang on. Keep it up!

EweSurname · 22/02/2019 20:41

I think you might be referenced in this!

King’s College Council votes not to fly transgender flag

www.varsity.co.uk/news/17153

MorbidMuch · 23/02/2019 10:11

I came on to post that too!

It shows that even a one-woman protest is enough to get some people to think critically.

Call for gender critical people in Cambridge, UK
NeurotrashWarrior · 23/02/2019 10:35

Fabulous work manic!

Socrates11 · 23/02/2019 22:55

Shame protest/meetings are always misrepresented as anti-transgender rather than pro-women's rights... so underhand.

maniacmagpie · 25/02/2019 12:36

Unless a challenger has appeared for my title of most transphobic student on King's Parade, I believe that article is indeed referring to me. Some of my friends do a little facebook snooping and I get the impression that I am a source of a lot of concern among the Women's/LGBT+ groups in the university...

I don't have much to say about the content of the article. If they want to keep painting me as 'anti-transgender' honestly that is their problem. If they want to declare that my words are 'disrespect' and 'discriminatory and unacceptable' that is their problem. If they want to rage about their inability to make one woman, sitting on a wall, with a one sentence declaration that 'acknowledging biological sex is NOT hate speech' go the hell away - if they want to tell the world about this awful hate crime that diminishes their humanity - that they are 'putting all their power into solving this issue' - I say let them get the hell on with it. It's not a reflection on me. It's a reflection on them.

However, much as they might want to pretend that they have an iron grip on the hearts and minds of the students in their ranks, we know this isn't true - there is dissent. Facebook posts appearing on various boards supporting me or otherwise challenging the narrative - even if swiftly taken down - are the least of it.

More and more people who would otherwise not really have any skin in the game are waking up. Quite a lot of people who come to talk to me say they didn't really know anything about it until they encountered the gender-neutral toilet campaign - and were appalled at the aggression employed, the insistence that the story is one of 'goodies vs baddies', and the complete dismissal of the possible concerns for the material sex-based rights of women as transphobia.

I spoke to some teenage girls - 15 years old - who talked about how they just didn't know what to do about a boy who had identified into their changing room, not otherwise seeming to have any distress or issues with gender. He had apparently claimed it was ok because he was gay. Obviously I do not know this boy and whether he really is same-sex attracted; the girls impression was really that this is just a male who has come to look at girls changing. None of the girls liked it but his rights are more important.

I spoke to a student who said that an action group had been created around the toilet issue in his college, completely comprised of people on one side. He knew for a fact that multiple letters of dissent had been written supporting women's only spaces, and the conclusion of the group was that there was no dissent.

I spoke to a gay woman who described how she and other women always, always make sure the males in the women's spaces are the most comfortable and most important and how is that any different to every mixed space we have ever been in?

I am so sad and tired when I hear story after story of women and girls concerns and difficulties being consistently and completely ignored. It's just so tiring. It's both the case that few people care and that many people claim we have no issues, that everything about being female is soft and easy, that we live coddled lives. There is bags of empathy to go round, it seems, to the deserving. And we all know who in this world deserves the lion's share.

I guess we just keep pulling.

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I will be at the A Woman's Place UK meeting in Norwich this evening, and hopefully will meet a few of you there.

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Manderleyagain · 25/02/2019 14:05

Maniacmagpie - send that post to Varsity as a letter and get them to print it as a response to the article.
People need to know where you are coming from.

As for the 15 year old girls aaggh. They are being let down by the adults. They need to sue their school.

Manderleyagain · 25/02/2019 14:43

OK I've just realised varsity is a student magazine so I assume they are not going to publish anything like you have just written.

But it would be easy to transplant that post into a blog post. You wouldn't have to re-write it, just add an introduction: 'This week I was mentioned in an article …. '. Your posts get a really positive response from the women here because they are well written as well as because of what you have been doing.

If you want any help with editing or proof reading any writings in the future I can help. I have some experience editing other people's work (informal, not professional!) and lots for my own work. You can fit quite long posts into DMs. I'm sitting here writing the odd letter or filling in the odd consultation, but you are out there being The Resistance!

And again the 15 year old girls - the local press should be finding this out and reporting it. People don't know this is happening.

I'm far from Norwich but have a great time. Tell everyone what you have been up to.

maniacmagpie · 01/03/2019 16:59

Thank you Manderleyagain. I am in contact with Varsity, although I don't know if they will be interested in what I have to say.

At the AWPUK meeting I commented briefly on both my activism and the response in the article above, essentially asking why it is so necessary - if my words are so obviously inflammatory and wrong - to disguise it all under the veneer of 'anti-transgender'. I think I got quite a good response.

I also met Graham Linehan and am unashamed to say I was a little starstruck. Since then he has tweeted about me using me to lead his twitter thread about how people came to the gender issue (similar to the 'Help a brother out' thread on mumsnet) and I suddenly have another five hundred followers.

The main reason I have remained sporadically flinging words onto this thread was that I simply didn't expect the response I got when I started, and am recovering from a long illness so I just do what I can, when I can. In a more ideal world I would probably have done this differently, to have a better impact I know I should get this all tidied up and pay attention to social media management...I honestly simply can't promise to do this right now. But Mumsnet will be the first in line to know when I do.

I really appreciate the support and offer for proofing, and absolutely promise to bear it in mind. It means a lot to me.

That goes to everyone I meet who comes to give a word of support - on the street, at the meetings (shout out to everyone who came to say hello at AWPUK). Every word of support I get, from everyone I meet, means a lot, no matter how many times it happens, it still means a lot. I hope talking to me, or seeing me out and about from afar gives you hope.

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Unfortunately due to illness I will not be out tomorrow (Saturday 2nd March) afternoon.

OP posts:
Yeahnahyeah · 01/03/2019 17:51

maniacmagpie Flowers

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 01/03/2019 18:03

We are proud to have you

Feel better soon Brew

ChattyLion · 01/03/2019 22:10

Flowers Cake Brew Gin Feel better soon and take good care of yourself. This is heroic stuff that you have been doing. Acknowledging biological sex is never hate speech. Flowers

NeurotrashWarrior · 02/03/2019 08:11

Absolutely what they all said; this is so important but do rest up and take care of your own health first and foremost! ThanksCakeGin

NotAnotherJaffaCake · 04/03/2019 14:46

Any Uni people here who feel strong enough to call the uni out on its language? Staff survey is out and no mention about sex. Definitely asks about every other protected category, but not sex.

The Equalities office also refuses to mention the term sex, also turns Athena SWAN into a "gender" campaign....

No idea how they plan to monitor sex discrimination and comply with the Equalities Act if they won't ask about sex.

maniacmagpie · 09/03/2019 20:35

Sadly I'm not staff. It's very saddening to see how this is crawling in across the University from the top down. I am in a male dominated STEM subject and sexism is alive and kicking.

I was back out as the handmaid today, happy International Women's Day (belated). It was a relatively quiet day. I had my first proper argument in a while, not many opposing people have bothered to engage recently (except for shouting). One woman kept saying that I don't think trans people exist. I'm so bored and tired of this. Of course they exist. So does the concept of 'female'. The other kept talking about how sexism and being treated as a woman was a social thing and I kept pushing her - what characteristic is it that makes us treated this way? She just kept dancing around it. At various points she asked what the point was if I'm just stepping on people - to which all I can say is what about the people you're stepping on? What about homosexual males and females? Are they in the wrong for their sexuality? She claimed that they are attracted to gender. I didn't agree.

I don't think I did a terribly good job, but I did thank her for engaging.

Call for gender critical people in Cambridge, UK
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MIdgebabe · 09/03/2019 20:40

So rape is social and not sex related? Wow wierd people in Cambridge.

ChattyLion · 09/03/2019 20:42

Magpie Happy IWD to you too.

maniacmagpie · 09/03/2019 20:53

Ack, thumb slipped!

I also spoke to someone who is training to be a teacher and who is very outraged at what he is being demanded to teach in PSHE; that menstruation is something that people - not female people, not women and girls - do. Like me he feels that it's not right to obfuscate a material reality in favour of a particular worldview. The Mermaids style gender stereotypes being promoted are not neutral - they are actively harmful.

I spoke to a woman who wondered what it was we were supposed to do confronted with a naked male in a changing room. The answer as we all know is to shut up or not use the space. Their rights are more important than ours; we must know our place. Whatever the reason - religion, past trauma, the difficulties of being a young girl - our rights are so easily dismissed.

I've got so used to quiet discussion that sometimes I forget how to be outraged - I want to find common ground, as I want the discussion to at least be had, but sometimes I have to remind myself. I am allowed to be angry, I am allowed to be outraged, I am allowed - I don't need permission! to fight - women and girls have the right to fight for their material sex based protections.

I don't need permission - and I won't ask permission - to fight for this. None of us do.

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AncientLights · 09/03/2019 20:57

Happy belated IWD from me too. You are so brave & I am full of admiration. Wish I were half as brave. Look after yourself. X

maniacmagpie · 15/03/2019 15:22

I will be back outside protesting on King's Parade tomorrow (Sat 16th March) between 2pm and 4pm.

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Needmoresleep · 15/03/2019 16:37

I don’t live in Cambridge but feel a day trip coming on. Not this weekend. Perhaps next. Any other Londoners want to join me on an outing?

Magpie has to be one of the coolest students in Cambridge.

PleaseSpeak · 15/03/2019 16:56

I am full of admiration for you too and would love to visit sometime from the north.

iguanadonna · 15/03/2019 19:33

You’re an inspiration. Best wishes for recovery from illness Flowers and hoping for lots of warm, sunny days for your protest.

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