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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Call for gender critical people in Cambridge, UK

281 replies

maniacmagpie · 24/09/2018 12:21

DISCLAIMER: am not a mum and am relatively young. Have lurked intermittently here and in other feminism spaces, largely interacting with other young people (student age). Due to my age, my main exposure to these issues is from the point of view of someone moving in young liberal spaces, and my call is phrased accordingly, rather than among adult women who have a more tangible experience of systematic sexism in society, medicine and life. PLEASE let me know if this not the appropriate place for this request, and I will step back.

This is a message that I have started to spread: I have not generally been a social person and so am finding it relatively difficult to get started on contacting people. If I can get in contact with other people who share my concerns in person that would be great: if not, I will do what I can.

"Hello.

I am a student at Cambridge University. I have been left-leaning my whole adult life. I have been supportive of trans rights for years. I have always believed, and continue to firmly believe, that discrimination on the basis of being trans is unacceptable; trans people should have access to the care that they need, and do not deserve to be treated as lesser people on the basis of who they are.

Despite this, I have become increasingly alarmed by the discourse surrounding trans activism. For many years I crushed my own thoughts about misogyny, my doubts about my own understanding of sexism, with the thoughts that I must not ‘get’ it as a ‘cis’ female. I believed - or rather, forced myself to believe, when I couldn’t truly believe - that trans people, and specifically trans women, completely understand what it means to be the gender they identify with.

I no longer believe this. Please, before you dismiss me as a bigot, hear me out.

I no longer believe womanhood is a mystical force that can be detached at will from the reality of the female body, I do not believe that femininity is the target of misogyny, because non-conforming women suffer still from misogyny. I do not believe that even trans men are able to escape all misogyny and their own socialisation by transitioning - they are still able to be, and indeed have been, targeted by sexual violence in a way that only male-bodied people can visit on female-bodied people - reproductive violence, that can result in pregnancy, and the associated policing of bodily autonomy that comes with that. I believe that trans women are the targets of misogyny when it is assumed they are female bodied, and homophobia and fear when they are assumed to be male. I do not believe that it is reasonable, or appropriate, to demand that natal women stop talking about reproductive violence due to this misdirected misogyny. I do not believe that this statement is transphobic.

I believe that transphobia - job discrimination, verbal abuse and violence - is unacceptable. However, I strongly disagree that certain actions that are labelled as transphobic among progressives, are transphobic at all. I believe, not only that homosexual men and women have every right to reject opposite-sexed people as sexual and romantic partners, but also that the demands circulated among many progressive forums are damaging to young people’s understanding of their sexuality. Specifically, the toxic combination of female socialisation, lack of resources for isolated girls, and pornsick fetishisation of lesbianism for the consumption of men makes lesbian youth vulnerable to manipulation and gaslighting from mainstream LGBT+ groups, illustrated by the horrific discourse about the ‘cotton ceiling’. Not wanting to sleep with someone is not violence. Inclusivity is not something that is expressed through access to your body. I do not believe that in normal conversation it is at all reasonable to demand that any person, trans or otherwise, talk about their genitals - but sexual relationships are another matter. Sexual relationships should only be engaged with by two willing and enthusiastic participants. Human sexuality is, and should be, exclusive and not a target for guilt-tripping.

I believe that specific difficulties are presented to trans people that they should have the resources to deal with and spaces to talk about. However, I also believe that specific difficulties are presented to female people on the basis of their bodies - and that discussion of these issues is not transphobia. Naming reproductive violence for what it is, campaigning for better understanding of female medical issues in the face of the huge male bias of modern medicine, and recognition of the economic and social penalties endured by female people specifically on the basis of being physically female and not due to an inner identity, is not transphobia.

Gender hurts. Gender is a system designed to trap and control female people from birth through childhood, adolescence, adulthood and old age, because of their reproductive capabilities. This system did not fall from the heavens; it was created by males, to benefit males. Women have always, and continue to, suffer under this system - our economic power restricted, our lives at the mercy of men, our bodies policed, our voices ignored - because we are female, because we are chattel, because of those who believe we are lesser. Gender is the reinforcement of sex stereotypes, that women have fought against and will continue to fight against, as long as it exists.

Many males suffer under this system - gender non-conforming males are at inordinate risk of violence, generally from other males - due to stepping out of line. Boys who show emotion are punished for it. Gender hurts - gender is not a fun hat to take on and off, gender kills boys and men for behaving the wrong way, and girls and women for both resisting and capitulating. Gender is not a fun toy to play with and to swap around. Gender is a system designed to break us down.

‘Pussy grabs back’ - women cry - because the President of the United States said ‘grab them by the pussy’. Not ‘grab them by the feminine essence’ or ‘grab them by the girl brain’ or ‘grab them by the emotional intelligence’. Grab them by the pussy. Grab this creature who exists for his consumption and pleasure, by the only thing that gives them value in his eyes. Focusing on this does not make women genital obsessed. Pointing out that this is the root of our oppression is not transmisogyny. Recognising that we are treated this way because of our bodies is not a statement that it is the most important aspect of our selves, but a declaration that we are more than our bodies - and that we must be able to name the problem in order to combat the problem. Saying ‘this pussy grabs back’ is not transphobia. Recognising the extreme sexism of powerful men is not transphobia.

I retain a deep sympathy for those who suffer with dysphoria and deal with it in the best way they can. My stance on trans identities is roughly that of a medicalist. I believe that trans people are fully deserving of respect, the same rights as every other person, and freedom from discrimination. I believe that what is being asked, by certain noisy factions of trans rights extremists, is not a call for respect but rather a call for excessive privileges at the expense largely of natal females, and a targeted bullying of lesbian females and homosexual males. I do not believe that it is transphobic to point this out.

I do not believe in brain sex, but even if I did I think it is irrelevant - if you carved open a woman to find a clearly, obviously male brain with MAN branded in big blue letters, she would still have suffered sexism based on her body. To those who believe this to be true, that they are ‘born in the wrong body’ and the only way to alleviate this is transition, I respect your autonomy and your right to live as you feel best, but must say this: sexism visited on a man in a woman’s body is no worse than sexism visited on a woman in a woman’s body. Sexism hurts ‘cis’ women as much as it hurts female-bodied people who identify otherwise. I do not believe this is a transphobic thing to say.

I want to raise awareness and spark discussion in Cambridge, both in and outside the University. I want to discuss these issues, in light of the gender self-ID consultation, the silencing of A Women’s Place UK, the violence perpetrated upon women who speak out, and the vitriol being circulated against gender critics. I invite natal women, natal men, trans women, trans men, straight, bisexual, gay, lesbian, questioning, otherwise - anyone who wants to discuss, debate or just acknowledge this topic - to contact me. My wish is to provide a space to debate and discuss these topics outside the false dichotomy of the ‘conservative right’ and the ‘progressive left’. I want to reach out to the women suffering from misogyny, men suffering from enforcement of toxic masculinity, and trans, lesbian and gay people who are being failed by conservative families on the right and by ‘queer identity’ theorists on the left who describe their reality as transphobic, who feel silenced and unable to speak out without being branded as either morally disgusting or as bigots.

Please spread this. PM me. I want to talk. I’m reaching out. I will use the tag ‘gender hurts uk’ (on tumblr, where my blog is 'yourledgerisdripping'), or privately message those of you who reach out to me.

Gender hurts."

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fallafal · 26/04/2019 12:21

Your constant effort is amazing magpie. Thank you, and hope you have a nice weekend off Thanks

littlbrowndog · 26/04/2019 13:56

Great work magpie

SisterWendyBuckett · 26/04/2019 14:06

Thank you for everything you're doing Magpie Thanks

maniacmagpie · 03/05/2019 10:24

I will not be out tomorrow (Saturday 4th May). I apologise for the erratic schedule, I have had a lot of unrelated things going on.

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GCAcademic · 03/05/2019 22:19

No need to apologise to us, maniacmagpie, you’re far braver and have done much more than most of us. I hope everything is OK with you. Flowers

maniacmagpie · 10/05/2019 17:25

I will be back outside protesting on Kings Parade 2pm to 4pm tomorrow (Saturday 11th May).

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AncientLights · 10/05/2019 17:34

Hope it goes well Magpie. You are a brave woman.

Ereshkigal · 10/05/2019 18:11

Good luck Maggie Thanks

Ereshkigal · 10/05/2019 18:11

Sorry autocorrect Blush Magpie

Orchidoptic · 10/05/2019 18:24

Hi there, we popped down on Easter Saturday but unfortunately missed you. We shall try again. I hope life calms down a bit for you.

PaleBlueMoonlight · 10/05/2019 19:33

Have a good day. I am enormously admiring of what you do.

maniacmagpie · 13/05/2019 19:33

Hello all.

I feel I should explain why I have been relatively terse and lacking in longer updates recently. There's not much to say except that I have just been absolutely exhausted. I'm behind on my political homework. I'm haunted by the notion of 'missing out' and dropping the ball, which makes it difficult to properly clear my head. I'm sure many of you can relate.

The longer this goes on the closer it skates to my personal life and the more impossible it becomes to separate - despite always having claimed that I am confident to defend myself to anyone who wants to know, it's another thing to see it inching closer (for example now seeing people I know in real life following me on Twitter, or catching me out protesting). I remain convinced of my confidence but the emotional cost is real.

I always keep questioning whether I'm 'doing the right thing'. I know a lot of you will say I am, and that I don't have to be haunted by the fear of being wrong, but I think it is right and healthy to keep questioning. If nothing else, its what let's me be at peace with my conviction. I know that in the past I believed other things. Knowing that I have the ability to change my mind and grow is what gives me the confidence to fight.

Sadly, extending the compassion of trying to understand that others are also doing what they think is right is given back to me less often than I might wish. I have encountered so much raw anger. In my more frustrated moments I wish I could do the same. When I'm confronted with people who do nothing but repeatedly state 'so you don't believe that trans people exist' I sometimes wish I could throw back 'so you don't believe women exist'. When someone parrots 'so you hate trans people' I could parrot back 'so you hate women and girls'. And so on...

The more I go out the more I am struck by the knowledge that the only way any of this works for them is that they rely on us the be the bigger people and prop up their ideology and they can't even see it. It's unacceptable for me to suggest that a female adult may be a woman, but it's perfectly well ok for them to insist that they aren't one because their genitals have nothing to do with their minds - presuming I suppose that anyone who isn't non-binary is just always thinking about what is between their legs? Why is all the courtesy in one direction?

Why am I not allowed to be offended? We aren't afforded the right to never see dissenting opinions. Imagine if I was as ferociously upset every time I saw 'trans women are women' plastered everywhere compared to how offended the student union seems to be at the existence of gender criticism. Imagine if they cared about women's anger at being forced under the notion of 'cis'. I can barely imagine. Nobody has ever given a damn about women's feelings. We had to claw for every scrap and now we can't even name ourselves.

In any case I'm not there for them or necessarily to change minds. If they will talk to me civilly (many do, even if we end up disagreeing) I engage with them adult to adult. I am heartened when that happens, though the cynic in me wonders whether they would defend the right to express my opinion in other fora. But my primary goals remain defiance against silencing, and support for those who are already critical.

Thank you all for your well wishes. It does mean the world to me that you care so much.

We keep pulling.
Magpie

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AncientLights · 13/05/2019 19:40

Magpie Flowers

Ereshkigal · 13/05/2019 21:33

Why am I not allowed to be offended? We aren't afforded the right to never see dissenting opinions. Imagine if I was as ferociously upset every time I saw 'trans women are women' plastered everywhere compared to how offended the student union seems to be at the existence of gender criticism. Imagine if they cared about women's anger at being forced under the notion of 'cis'. I can barely imagine. Nobody has ever given a damn about women's feelings. We had to claw for every scrap and now we can't even name ourselves.

This is so true. Take care of yourself Flowers

MrsSnippyPants · 13/05/2019 21:40

Oh Magpie, you articulate many of my own thought processes so much better than I can. I wish I was geographically closer so I could show my support properly. All power to you xx Flowers

SisterWendyBuckett · 13/05/2019 21:48

Dear Magpie, you express things so eloquently.

The battle we fight is personal. It's painful and invasive and eats up so much of our energy.

The loss of my lesbian daughter to the trans/queer movement is unbearable. It has the power to destroy, but every day I fight a personal battle to stop that from happening.

What you, and other young women are doing, means so much to me. It's like a light in the darkness. It gives me hope that one day my own daughter will reconnect to who she truly is and find the power and truth of her own female voice.

MIdgebabe · 13/05/2019 22:16

Gosh look after yourself first. this is a long fight. We each just do what we can when we can.

LangCleg · 13/05/2019 22:23

Nobody has ever given a damn about women's feelings.

Never a truer word spoken.

Flowers for you, Magpie. You continue to inspire.

maniacmagpie · 17/05/2019 15:08

Thank you all for the well wishes. It is good to remember to take care of myself. I'm ever torn between embracing the personal nature of the fight - fighting for the tangible rights of the women around me, and for the academic and liberal freedom to speak and criticise any ideology - and letting my anger burn me down to the bone. I'm sure you can all relate.

I will be back outside protesting tomorrow (Saturday 18th May) from 2pm to 4pm. I will also be at the A Woman's Place UK meeting on Monday 20th May. Hope to see some of you there!

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OldCrone · 17/05/2019 15:55

I find some of the arguments you have been faced with a bit odd. For example:

It's unacceptable for me to suggest that a female adult may be a woman, but it's perfectly well ok for them to insist that they aren't one because their genitals have nothing to do with their minds

Do they think that being a woman is all in the mind? I don't think that genitals have anything to do with the mind - that sort of notion belongs in the past when women didn't have any rights and were thought to be too feeble minded to take part in society in the same way as men, and weren't educated in case they got ideas that they could do something other than be wives and mothers. I really don't understand what they're getting at here.

When I'm confronted with people who do nothing but repeatedly state 'so you don't believe that trans people exist'

I'd like people who say this to explain what they mean by 'trans people'.

I think you're doing a great job, though, magpie, taking this to the streets and talking to people. Well done. And if it's getting too much for you, take a break.

ChattyLion · 17/05/2019 21:17

Brew Magpie so sorry you are having a hard time. What you are doing outside in public, living this debate like you do is absolutely amazing.

But you don’t owe anyone anything in all this- you don't need to carry on with the protesting if you don’t feel up to it and you also don’t owe a big dialogue about this to anyone if you don’t want to.. but especially not the ones who heckle or berate you because you don’t agree with their political ideas. Please look after yourself first.

(By the way that was a great post. You are right).

maniacmagpie · 24/05/2019 18:08

Regretfully, I am stepping back for an unknown length of time. I have been struggling for a while with other things on my plate (evidenced by my erratic schedule over the past few weeks) but am sorry to disappoint all the same. Keep pulling, and I hope I'll be back soon.

The support here is amazing, and I am so grateful to you all for your well wishes. (And naturally, as probably one of the younger posters and young enough to be a daughter or even granddaughter to many of you...do feel free to roll your eyes about the fact it seemed obvious I was running on fumes. Leave it to kids like me to not listen to sensible advice sooner rather than later!)

One last thing - I had a brilliant time at WPUK. Rubbing shoulders with some of the more notorious feminist 'wrongthinkers' really was quite surreal, as was being recognised and having my hand shaken by strangers who have seen photos of me loudly declaring my own wrongthink in the public square.

Thank you all. I know you'll tell me not to be, but I'm sorry anyway.
Magpie

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WorkingItOutAsIGo · 24/05/2019 18:24

Manic - I am certainly old enough to be your mother as one of my DCs is your contemporary at Cambridge. I have therefore always had a rather maternalistic feeling about you so from that perspective I definitely want you to take care of yourself. Be proud of what you have done and remember - they tell us to put our own oxygen masks on first on a plane as you cannot help others if you cannot breathe. So relax, enjoy your work and if you have exams or dissertations to do I hope they go well. I am just sorry I didn’t get the time to come up one Saturday to stand with you.

Be well xxx

SisterWendyBuckett · 28/05/2019 15:17

Dearest Magpie, you come first - always.

Thank you for everything you've been doing and for your courage and commitment.
I can imagine the toll it's taken on you personally.

You've given me hope for the future of our sex at a very difficult time, when my own daughter has vanished into the trans cult.

Wishing you health, happiness and much love Thanks

BingBongSong · 28/05/2019 15:27

Hi Magpie,
Thank you for raising awareness in Cambridge - I'm an alumna of the university and I think you have been very brave to protest, in front of King's of all colleges!

I hope to take my dc down to Cambridge sometime in the future, and will keep an eye out for you if we're there. I'd like to shake your hand and buy you a drink!

Best wishes, and take care of yourself.

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