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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans debate BBC 5live post 9am TODAY Mon 24th Sept

270 replies

TefalTester123 · 24/09/2018 08:56

Not posted much on this but been following the debate. Just heard interview with the Guide Leader at the centre of the GG issues (Helen I think) and announcement that they will be debating the whole trans issue after 9am with Nicky Campbell.

OP posts:
heresyandwitchcraft · 24/09/2018 10:30

And I just checked the register.
Helen Webberley is still under conditions until the 8th November- they specifically list the transgender issue like this:
4. a. In her work with transgender patients she must work as part of a multi-disciplinary team, the membership of which must be approved by her Responsible Officer. b She must maintain a log detailing her prescribing in respect of transgender patients, recording the agreement of the multi-disciplinary team. c She must give a copy of this log to the interim orders tribunal at her next review hearing.

Melamin · 24/09/2018 10:31

"I am going to transfer the hub of my service to my other residence in Malaga, Spain so that I can continue providing care while the regulatory processes are being sorted out."

Those of us on menopause boards know this is where you go to get your HRT over the counter. Hmm

NothingOnTellyAgain · 24/09/2018 10:31

No mention of the bus stop wanking, extreme porn supporting, get tits early and suck cock advice for schoolgirls etc etc

No mention of teh 4 women sexually assaulted in prison which ANYONE WITH HALF A BRAIN COULD HAVE PREDICTED EASILY WAS GOING TO HAPPEN WHEN YOU LOCK CONVICTED MALE SEX OFFENDERS IN PRISON WITH WOMEN

FFS x 100000000000000000000000000

The BBC didn't even REPORT about david challenor FGS to protect their view of trans ideology and that story opened up a massive can of worms. Their idea that it was not news (what, when so closely linked to one of the UK political parties? with the abuser being connected to scouts etc? REALLY???) was ludicrous.

Anlaf · 24/09/2018 10:34

Ahem.

Retweeting a suspended unregulated gp, Nicky?

Trans debate BBC 5live post 9am TODAY Mon 24th Sept
R0wantrees · 24/09/2018 10:35

In her work with transgender patients she must work as part of a multi-disciplinary team,

from Gender GP website 'Queries'

"Do you have a multi-disciplinary team?
I have a lovely team of people helping me and my patients. I have counsellors, psychotherapists, an admin team and my husband who is a consultant physician."

Forgotthebins · 24/09/2018 10:38

Nothingontellyagain - the person saying "we", was that anything to do with multiple personalities? I ask because Kathleen Stock retweeted something from Gendered Intelligence who said that they had held a workshop with their 16-20 youth group on "being multiple and trans": twitter.com/Docstockk/status/1042421101094154240.

I've not caught up with the programme yet though - willl do later and thanks so much everyone here for flagging the issues about Dr Webberly, am baffled that the BBC thinks it's a responsible thing to do to give a doctor a platform whose fitness to practise has already been questioned.

Anlaf · 24/09/2018 10:39

I'm struggling to see how this will look any different to the people who gave Andrew Wakefield credence, when one day we are able to look back on this.

R0wantrees · 24/09/2018 10:39

Retweeting a suspended unregulated gp, Nicky?

Helen Webberley:
"the large number of complaints that have been made to the GMC about me by the consultants at Charing Cross and the GIDS."

**consultants !
GIDS = 'The Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS) is a highly specialised clinic for young people presenting with difficulties with their gender identity. Our service was established in 1989.

We are commissioned by NHS England who set the service specifications for how we work.'

darkriver198868 · 24/09/2018 10:40

It felt like an incredibly biased debate (the bbc being biased shocking!!)
The line the stood out for me was "Its not hurting anybody." Apart from girls and women who are having there spaces eroded.

heresyandwitchcraft · 24/09/2018 10:41

R0wan that is.... unsurprising but in my view represents a case of assembling a team to cover for your ongoing slightly dodgy practices of giving 12-year olds cross-sex hormones rather than complying with the spirit of the conditions. I wonder if she managed to find an ideologically sympathetic "Responsible" Officer as well.

deepwatersolo · 24/09/2018 10:42

"Biological sex is a tricky one"

One can only admire how efficiently most people manage contraception - even those without a university degree in STEM! Geniuses every single one of them.

arranfan · 24/09/2018 10:44

"Its not hurting anybody." Apart from girls and women who are having there spaces eroded.

Apart from the public understanding of science.

Apart from the systemic societal gaslighting aradfemtypes.wordpress.com/2018/04/07/systemic-societal-gaslighting-part-1/

Apart from the climate of fear about accidental misgendering being classified as a hate crime

R0wantrees · 24/09/2018 10:44

May 2018 James Kirkup Spectator article 'Why are some MPs trying to shut down the transgender debate?'

(extract)
"[Stephen Doughty MP] said. “Do you think the use of the phrase “trans lobby” is an appropriate one?”

As it happens, Dr Carmichael [GIDS lead] in her lecture said some things that seem relevant here:

“Gender has become amazingly topical and we have to be really careful not to assume that anyone is exploring or questioning their gender is going to want to change their bodies in line with that. The extremes on either side are not helpful. We need to look at the grey areas in between. To do that we need to be able to talk and discuss these issues. All too often stakeholders become lobby groups.”

She did not name any stakeholder. But her words might be relevant to a charity called Mermaids. Mermaids is a charity that describes itself as “a support group for children and young people with gender dysphoria and their families”. Its CEO, Susie Green describes herself as “parent to a daughter who was born male.” Mermaids is a relatively small charity (it had income of £127,000 in the year to March 2017) with a big reach. It has prominent backers and its advice and recommendations have been absorbed and adopted by many public bodies." (continues)

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/why-are-some-mps-trying-to-shut-down-the-transgender-debate/

Dr Webberley is the preferred clinician by many involved with Mermaids and also other prominant TRAs who have political influence.

ScrimshawTheSecond · 24/09/2018 10:45

Mind you, Webberley does seem to be able to sell hormones cheaply to anyone who 'can't wait' for the proper medical process from their own GP, so there's that in her favour?

gendergp.co.uk/self-medicating/

arranfan · 24/09/2018 10:48

deepwatersolo wrote: One can only admire how efficiently most people manage contraception - even those without a university degree in STEM! Geniuses every single one of them.

As a thought experiment and assuming you're wrong, DWS, should we now seize the amazing idea that we should market a range of condoms for the lady peen? Purely to ensure the non-transmission of sexually-transmitted diseases, you understand. Nothing to do with contraception because, those are dangerous waters and a tricky biological area. Except when it comes to understanding the transmission of sexual disease.

Charliethefeminist · 24/09/2018 10:49

Nick Campbell has breached BBC social media policy. Just saying.

R0wantrees · 24/09/2018 10:52

Mind you, Webberley does seem to be able to sell hormones cheaply to anyone who 'can't wait' for the proper medical process from their own GP, so there's that in her favour?

all rather interesting given the recent BBC Panorama program about the dangers ofonline prescriptions?

Dr Christian's role was featured.

"Panorama goes undercover to reveal online doctor sites putting profit before patient care. In 2017 the Care Quality Commission issued a warning about the risks of buying drugs prescribed by doctors online. The programme discovers opiate-based painkillers and slimming tablets being sold to potentially vulnerable people and antibiotics being delivered across Europe in the face of warnings about resistance.

Dr Faye Kirkland, journalist and GP, meets the families of patients who have died after online consultations and exposes the sites running rings around the regulators."
[[https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b3qb74]]

R0wantrees · 24/09/2018 10:54

Nick Campbell has breached BBC social media policy

BBC editorial values:

1.2.1 Trust

Trust is the foundation of the BBC: we are independent, impartial and honest. We are committed to achieving the highest standards of due accuracy and impartiality and strive to avoid knowingly and materially misleading our audiences.

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We seek to establish the truth of what has happened and are committed to achieving due accuracy in all our output. Accuracy is not simply a matter of getting facts right; when necessary, we will weigh relevant facts and information to get at the truth. Our output, as appropriate to its subject and nature, will be well sourced, based on sound evidence, thoroughly tested and presented in clear, precise language. We will strive to be honest and open about what we don't know and avoid unfounded speculation.

1.2.3 Impartiality

Impartiality lies at the core of the BBC's commitment to its audiences. We will apply due impartiality to all our subject matter and will reflect a breadth and diversity of opinion across our output as a whole, over an appropriate period, so that no significant strand of thought is knowingly unreflected or under-represented. We will be fair and open-minded when examining evidence and weighing material facts.

1.2.4 Editorial Integrity and Independence

The BBC is independent of outside interests and arrangements that could undermine our editorial integrity. Our audiences should be confident that our decisions are not influenced by outside interests, political or commercial pressures, or any personal interests.

1.2.5 Harm and Offence

We aim to reflect the world as it is, including all aspects of the human experience and the realities of the natural world. But we balance our right to broadcast innovative and challenging content with our responsibility to protect the vulnerable from harm and avoid unjustifiable offence. We will be sensitive to, and keep in touch with, generally accepted standards as well as our audiences' expectations of our content, particularly in relation to the protection of children.

1.2.6 Serving the Public Interest

We seek to report stories of significance to our audiences. We will be rigorous in establishing the truth of the story and well informed when explaining it. Our specialist expertise will bring authority and analysis to the complex world in which we live. We will ask searching questions of those who hold public office and others who are accountable, and provide a comprehensive forum for public debate.

1.2.7 Fairness

Our output will be based on fairness, openness, honesty and straight dealing. Contributors and audiences will be treated with respect.

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1.2.9 Children

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www.bbc.co.uk/editorialguidelines/guidelines/bbc-editorial-values/editorial-values

Melamin · 24/09/2018 10:55

I wonder if this is how Womans Hour will be treating their up coming Transgender Debate in October*

(*probably after the 19th when the consultation ends, but it is still close to the wire for anyone inspired to fill in the form - it takes some time and research and help from FairPlay for Women and is obviously designed with women out of mind.)

heresyandwitchcraft · 24/09/2018 10:57

The worst part is that the BBC clearly know about Dr Webberley's controversy. They wrote an article on the subject just last year, which is the second search result for her name.
She does her gender work in private practice, which makes you wonder about a potential conflict of interest regarding financial motivations.
But no.
The BBC presents her completely uncritically as the expert of experts.
Nicky Campell tweets out what is essentially an advert for Webberley's private enterprise Gender GP (sure, it's on his personal account, but after his vehement "impersonation of a feminist" on that segment propaganda calling itself a debate...)
Biased doesn't even BEGIN to describe this.

Igneococcus · 24/09/2018 10:59

*"Biological sex is a tricky one"

One can only admire how efficiently most people manage contraception - even those without a university degree in STEM! Geniuses every single one of them.*

Or how farmers have managed to tell cows from bulls for probably millenia.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 24/09/2018 11:00

"deepwatersolo wrote: One can only admire how efficiently most people manage contraception - even those without a university degree in STEM! Geniuses every single one of them.

As a thought experiment and assuming you're wrong, DWS, should we now seize the amazing idea that we should market a range of condoms for the lady peen? Purely to ensure the non-transmission of sexually-transmitted diseases, you understand. Nothing to do with contraception because, those are dangerous waters and a tricky biological area. Except when it comes to understanding the transmission of sexual disease."

HOLD ON A MINUTE.

This all sounds very wrong to me.

I have it on good authority from a organisation that educates children on issues around sex and gender

That there is "basically no difference" between a clitoris and a penis apart from how far it extends from the body > smaller to larger

With most people lying "somehwhere in the middle" from these two extremes of size.

Come ON people get with the program.

frogintheTyne · 24/09/2018 11:00

Do the BBC not understand that Wibberley is suspended?

Datun · 24/09/2018 11:02

"Its not hurting anybody."

I hope someone on Twitter tweets Nicky Clarke with this statement and a picture of the flayed arm of that poor girl getting phalloplasty.

And the fact that Webberley sterilised a 12-year-old girl. Fucking 12 years old.

R0wantrees · 24/09/2018 11:02

Do the BBC not understand that Wibberley is suspended?

Either they don't (which they should)

or they are endorsing her (which they shouldn't)

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