What's with all the transgender hate?

[Tiggy82]

I'm new to this and have been looking at the feminism chat and there seems to be so much hate and fear about transgender people! What's that about? And apparently you can't be a feminist and be accepting of transgender people, that just seems ludicrous to me, surely feminism is about equality, I am not pretending to be particularly knowledgeable on the trans subject, but i do think having equality for transgender people is nothing but a positive thing. Has anyone actually been personally negatively affected by a transgender person? Or is it all a theoretical fear?

Seems clear we ain't going to STFU on this one. Feminists are always accused of hating men when we stand up for ourselves...same old, same old.

It does come down to this. If (let's face it, male) transpeople did just want to live their lives, the vast majority of women here wouldn't have a problem. It's the dismantling to women only spaces, the medicalisation of children and the shouts of transphobia when we use words to describe ourselves and only ourselves.

We aren't attacking transpeople, we are standing up for ourselves.

How many of these rules are broken when men insist that we are making mountains out of molehills, not debating, saying mean things, assuming the worst in 'people'

1st rule of misogyny: Women are responsible for what men do.
2nd rule of misogyny: Women saying no to men is a hate crime.
3rd rule of misogyny: Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.
4th rule of misogyny: Women's opinions are violence against men thus male violence against women is justified.
5th rule of misogyny: WATM! Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.
6th rule of misogyny: Women who go around being female AT men by menstruating and breast feeding babies deserve punishment.
7th rule of misogyny: Women should always be grateful to men for everything.
8th rule of misogyny: Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.
9th rule of misogyny: Men always know the "real reasons" for everything women do and say. 10th rule of misogyny: The worst thing about male violence is that it males men look bad. 11th rule of misogyny: Basic pattern recognition skills are cruel and evil when they hurt men's feelings.
12th rule of misogyny: whatever women suffer from, men suffer from more.
13th rule of misogyny: Women are not oppressed! Rape and catcalling and objectification are all compliments, not oppression.
14th rule of misogyny: Women have all the rights they need: The right to remain silent.

(Thanks to thebewilderness for the rules)

I don't hate transgender people. Not at all. Why on earth would I? I do hate the TRA ideology which seeks to take over and erase women's rights and safety though.

It's been apparent to me for a few years that one of the words that a fair number of people don't appear to understand the meaning of is 'hate'.

It now gets used to mean 'challenge', 'question', 'refuse to agree with' and so on.

For the record (as many have already said): gender critical feminists do not 'hate' transpeople. What we are disturbed by and refuse to accept is the erosion of our status as members of the sex class women and our safety, privacy and rights to protection.

And don't get me started on that ridiculous expression 'hating on'...

I don’t take instruction in tone.
Brilliantly put Lang
We’re not going to sit down and be quiet on this.

Eagle tone policing women is shitty, and feminists try not to do it, because we rea;use our shock at women being impolite is part of our female socialisation.

We each set our own tone, and we afford other women the respect to set their own.

Not attempting to bully other women into line doesn’t necessarily mean we agree with them, it means we understand each woman has the right to autonomy.

What's funny is that you don't even realize how homophobic that sounds. Of course I do. That was the whole point of my post - that if you apply the logic you use around the trans debate to homosexual people then it is homophobic, as you rightly pointed out.

Why is it in any way relevant to the trans debate? It's a total non-point. If you apply the same logic about anything to other situations you would draw a false equivalence. And?

One can just as easily point out how homophobic elements of trans ideology are.

I can't be arsed to duke it out with the damage reduction squad tbh. It's telling that so many of the uninitiated find this place transphobic, but of course you lot have your 'justifications' so it's all fine.

It's telling that so many of the uninitiated find this place transphobic

What specific examples can you provide to back up this claim?

We get accused of transphobia all the time but no one seems able to substantiate their accusations.

Funny that.

It's telling that So many can't actually point to a single instance of transphobia.

Hmm, examples of people finding this place transphobic. 🤔 Maybe this thread. And numerous ones before it.

Still waiting for actual examples of transphobia...

Sorry dear, think of me as really dumb, I need a more detailed explanation eg x said .... this is transphobic because......

Thats not what you asked for. Don't try and change your tune now that I've backed up my claim as you asked me to. My claim was that people find this place transphobic, and you asked me to back it up, which I did. I suggest you reread your last post....

Was replying to monkey.

Ok I'll ask in another way. What specific examples of transphobia would lead someone to conclude this place is transphobic?

I'm going to bed now and I'll look forward to seeing all the examples of transphobia in the morning.

Ok, it took me less than a minute to find this post from a 'well respected' regular on FWR.

"To have a bunch of never-had-a-hardship-beyond-Netflix-not-loading trendseekers come along and piggyback on people's genuine struggle is fucking insulting." (because transfolk have so much easier lives than white middle class feminists with their board of directors aspirations).

"Maybe this thread" And there we have it. Basically women talking about protecting women's rights is transphobic in Eagle's eyes. This is the point, I fear, at which we have to just differ in our viewpoints. Saying "woman=adult human female" or "women don't have penises" is a straightforward statement of biological fact as far as I'm concerned, the Adrian Harrups of this world think it's transphobic, we won't ever agree, but lurkers are, I'm sure, intelligent enough to decide for themselves whose arguments make more sense.

I'll bet there's more female than trans CEOs!

Fermats, you need to go and reread the discussion too. My point was that somebody created this thread to address a perceived bias against transpeople - hence it demonstrates a perception of transphobia as I said.

I see I've been quoted. For the avoidance of doubt I was referring to the enormous scope of the Trans umbrella which no longer simply means Transsexuals, but a fantastic array of bods with nothing more significant than blue hair, or a fancy for wearing pink dresses and fishnets two days a week and a masculine suit the rest of the time.

No, I think you'll find someone created this thread to trawl for screenshots to put on twitter. We're fairly used to this sort of underhand tactic here. If you're here in good faith, which I presume you are, perhaps you could offer some constructive solutions. How do women campaign, for instance, for male-bodied rapists like Karen White not to be placed in women's prisons (where he went on to sexually assault 4 of the inmates) without being accused of transphobia? How do women raise the fact that chancers like Pip Bunce are completely taking the piss out of awards to try to recognise women who succeed in their chosen field against a background of structural and institutional sexism directed at biological females, without being accused of transphobia? How do we do this? And more particularly, how do we do this without being punched in the face, threatened with doxxing, having our meeting venues sent bomb threats, being threatened with our employers being informed of our transphobia and threatened with unemployment? What are your constructive suggestions for debate here?

Why is that transphobic? You state that trans people have it easier than even the top of the pile white middle class women , so no wonder women get upset that trans people try to steal from them